A 30 year-old legionnaire of 2e REG kills a man in Marseille

#21
No worries for this... His career in the Legion is over. He'll be tried, probably sentenced and will serve time in a civilian prison (probably Les Beaumettes in Marseille).
That sucks.... I guess that the Justice in France is just like in Argentina...
You are good person, then the justice will threat you like trash... You are pos that want to steal and kill then you are poor victim of the society.
 
#22
No worries for this... His career in the Legion is over. He'll be tried, probably sentenced and will serve time in a civilian prison (probably Les Beaumettes in Marseille).
What'll be the outcome if self defence is proven? Maybe a rap on the knuckles or La Taule?
 
#24
Prove the legionnaire didn't disarm one of the two aggressors and used his knife against them. One thing for sure, the aggresors used gaz lacrymogène (tear-gas) in an homophobic attack. Extenuating circumstances (circonstances atténuantes) for the legionnaire and circonstances aggravantes for the surviving attacker. The dead cannot be prosecuted in France.
 
#25
What'll be the outcome if self defence is proven? Maybe a rap on the knuckles or La Taule?
The law regarding self-defence says that, whatever means you use to defend yourself, they must be proportionate to the risk you wanted to avoid. In that case, the assault with a tear-gas canister wasn't life threatening, so the judge may consider that self-defence cannot be invoked to justify using a dagger to stab the aggressors (and kill one). I agree with Dusaboss on that one.
Having said that, I'm not the judge. As Le Petit Caporal says, extenuating circumstances (circonstances atténuantes in French) will probably be taken into account in the trial. However, since there is an homicide, I doubt the legionnaire will get away with it. I would expect, at a minimum, a suspended sentence of time in prison. I'm pretty much convinced that his career in the Legion is history anyway. But I may be wrong...
 
#26
No way, A man is dead and they attack them with pepper spray. Even if it was self-defence he would be guilty.
Sorry but that´s the biggest bull. This guy was just walking with his lover doing his business. He was taken by surprise what was he supposed to do??? Fight them hand to hand, against two theft who may had weapons???

The law regarding self-defence says that, whatever means you use to defend yourself, they must be proportionate to the risk you wanted to avoid. In that case, the assault with a tear-gas canister wasn't life threatening, so the judge may consider that self-defence cannot be invoked to justify using a dagger to stab the aggressors (and kill one). I agree with Dusaboss on that one
It's the same bull like in Argentina, which is no surprise after all we use the “French Doctrine” when it comes to law.
 
#27
There was recently the case of a Turkish jewlery keeper who got robbed in Nice. The robbers took off on a scooter. The shop keeper went out with his gun, fired and killed one of them. He got 5 years in prison (suspended sentence). The profile of the protagonists will be looked at closely. Two types, driving in Marseille in the early hours (previous record?) Doing what ? Where had they been? Alcohol and or other prohibited substances used ? They had a car. They could of driven off. No, they prefered the confrontation and they used a cat.D weapon and they lost.
No way of knowing for sure, but I'll have a guess: it was the passenger who hurled the insult (his accomplice later drove him to he hospital). It was the passenger who sprayed the tear gas. I presume the car was a VW Golf or an Audi A3.
2 persons : A legionnaire and a thing (not sure what the proper terminology is and since the World Health Organisation this week declared that Trans is not a mental disease, to avoid stigmatisation) minding her/his own buisness. The legionnaire is for sure, a primo délinquant (if not he wouldn't be serving the France). Can the others claim the same ?

The legionnaire's friend must be thinking to him/herself. Am lucky or unlucky to be still in one piece.
 

dusaboss

Hyper Active Member
#28
Of Course its is BS GSP. But that is way law is here. If someone attack me with fist, hit me couple times (don't make any dmg to me) and then I hit him once in self defence and break his tooth. Under low of this state I can be found guilty because I did step over force needed for self defence. Luckily usually judges have understanding for cases like that. But low say that in self defense you can only use force equal to force attacker used against you, truly BS
 

Joseph Cosgrove

Moderator
Legionnaire
#29
(...) I presume the car was a VW Golf or an Audi A3. (...)
... Or a BMW. We all know what you want to say... Marseille, early hours of the morning, is it a crime against homos (or whatever) or a couple of Jeunes from the cités ? The weapon will certainly lead to that conclusion.
The word “Jeune” is what the French press and the government like to use to describe the scumbag from the cités, suburbs (ghettos). The word Jeune means young. When I was a youth, I was not snatching (old age pensioners handbags- not today's jeune) people's telephones or brief cases or wallets etc.
For the jeune who was killed, may he RIP.
 
#30
(...) The word “Jeune” is what the French press and the government like to use to describe the scumbag from the cités, suburbs (ghettos). The word Jeune means young. When I was a youth, I was not snatching (old age pensioners handbags- not today's jeune) people's telephones or brief cases or wallets etc. (...)
The media is trash everywhere. They make these things look like innocent people, that are victims of the society... If these jeune had the chance they would have killed the legionnaire and raped the trans dude.
 
#31
(...) It's the same bull like in Argentina, which is no surprise after all we use the “French Doctrine” when it comes to law.
It's not just the “French doctrine”... I'm pretty sure most legal systems in the world will limit the right of self-defence to avoid any abuse and ensure the means you used to defend yourself were proportionate to the risk. It doesn't mean that, if somebody assaults with a knife, you can only fight back with a knife and can't use a firearm, if you have one, and kill the aggressor, it means that you'll have to demonstrate (or convince a jury) that you truly believed your life was in danger.
The case of the jeweler cited by Le Petit Caporal is a good illustration of this principle. The robber was fleeing after breaking in the store, he was shot in the back (and killed) by the shopkeeper, while he didn't present any threat to his life. Mitigating circumstances were accepted, but the right of self-defence wasn't recognised and the murderer was sentenced.


... Or a BMW. We all know what you want to say... Marseille, early hours of the morning, is it a crime against homos (or whatever) or a couple of Jeunes from the cités ? The weapon will certainly lead to that conclusion.
The word “Jeune” is what the French press and the government like to use to describe the scumbag from the cités, suburbs (ghettos). The word Jeune means young. When I was a youth, I was not snatching (old age pensioners handbags- not today's jeune) people's telephones or brief cases or wallets etc.
For the jeune who was killed, may he RIP.
Well... If you read closely the article, you see that one of the two aggressors (the one that survived) is 32 year-old. Not really a “jeune”, so to speak, that is a juvenile delinquent, who are generally in their early 20s or even less, teenagers. The article says nothing about the age of the guy who was killed by the legionnaire, but it must be in the same range (just my guess, however).
 
#32
It's not just the “French doctrine”... I'm pretty sure most legal systems in the world will limit the right of self-defence to avoid any abuse and ensure the means you used to defend yourself were proportionate to the risk. It doesn't mean that, if somebody assaults with a knife, you can only fight back with a knife and can't use a firearm, if you have one, and kill the aggressor, it means that you'll have to demonstrate (or convince a jury) that you truly believed your life was in danger. (...)
Same in Argentina. By the law you only have the right to exercise your “Legitima Defensa” only if your life or someone else‘s is in danger.
There was a similar case in Argentina a few years. A theft broke inside the house of a lady, he took all he could among those things, her medicine for her cancer and Chemotherapy. She took her .22lr handgun went to street and shoot the theft. He kept running and she kept shooting. Eventually the guy ran out of blood and died...
She was charged with excess of "Legitima Defensa". Luckily for her, she had a good lawyer. The lawyer pleaded not guilty and said that she had a mental breakdown due to her health condition and losing her medication (which is extremly expensive in Argentina). Luckily for her again, the Judge released her.

This is how you teach a young theft, that stealing is wrong. No real damage and he gets the point.
It so friendly that even youtube think is safe for everyone to watch.


Down the road, i hope this legionnaire gets free of charge.
 
#34
It's not just the “French doctrine”... I'm pretty sure most legal systems in the world will limit the right of self-defence to avoid any abuse and ensure the means you used to defend yourself were proportionate to the risk. It doesn't mean that, if somebody assaults with a knife, you can only fight back with a knife and can't use a firearm, if you have one, and kill the aggressor, it means that you'll have to demonstrate (or convince a jury) that you truly believed your life was in danger. (...)
Exactly the same in South Africa, a term they like to throw around is proportional force when cases like these pop up. In our laws the only difference between murder and culpable homicide is that murder was pre-meditated and culpable homicide was not. Regardless if you you were in danger or not a case of culpable homicide will be opened against you and it is up to you to prove self defense or whatever. Also, a life is not worth a physical good (TV, stereo, whatever), so shooting a chap because he was going to steal your Hi-Fi won't cut it.
My 5 cents, so it isn't just France either.
 

dusaboss

Hyper Active Member
#36
This is how you teach a young theft, that stealing is wrong. No real damage and he gets the point.
It so friendly that even youtube think is safe for everyone to watch.
No that isn't the way! They torture him. It's one thing to bit someone up in effect to teach him a lesson and ... this is something else. I mean, as I can see he's almost definitely not receiving some serious burns (or beatings), but again... all concept is really bad.

I understand that sometimes you have to take law in to your own hands because you know that state wouldn't do anything about it, but man ... don't torture people. Do we need to cut someone's hand because of thievery? I know place for those who believe in that.

BTW we don't know anything about tranny and legionar situation. Let's see what investigation says. Who know what happened there.
 
#37
Do we have to cut off someone's hand because he posts too much? No,,of course not, after all we are civilised). Do we need to cut the tongues off them who talk too much? Of course not, we are democratic, whatever you say. Do we have to support a complaicted back water who has no access to running water but a full time connection to the internet? I'm asking you, comrades.
 

voltigeur

Legionnaire
Former Moderator
#38
It's not just the “French doctrine”... I'm pretty sure most legal systems in the world will limit the right of self-defence to avoid any abuse and ensure the means you used to defend yourself were proportionate to the risk. It doesn't mean that, if somebody assaults with a knife, you can only fight back with a knife and can't use a firearm, if you have one, and kill the aggressor, it means that you'll have to demonstrate (or convince a jury) that you truly believed your life was in danger. (...)
Yes, it is the same in Canada.
 
#39
Yes, it is the same in Canada.
It may work in countries were the criminals just rob you and go on their way. Sadly in 3rd World countries, not only the steal you but they kill you for fun.
Something they are doing now, is that they like to steal from old people, they are easy. They get in the house, if they belive the old people are not giving all the money, they will beat one of them, while they keep asking for money to the other one. If no money is given then they beat both and leave them to die. Even sometimes they use iron clothes to make them talk where the money is.


https://www.tiempodesanjuan.com/pol...brutalmente-golpeada-junto-marido-180760.html

https://www.adnsur.com.ar/2018/06/golpean-brutalmente-una-abuela-robarle/

I know is not politically correct (Thank god Internet anonymity) but good riddance, one less thief in the world.
 

dusaboss

Hyper Active Member
#40
GSP. You mixing things here. It's one thing when someone steal bike on the street and its completely another when someone broke to house and torture owner to to death.

I agree that law of equal force for self-defence is not right, but in most judges take occasions action in consideration. I think that man should be able to protect himself in his house by any means.

But man, you can shoot someone in a head (with your M48 :)) just because he bitchslapped you. You can't break someone's jaw just because he stole loaf of bread.

I also don't agree with many EU laws (which are written from the best of intent but the time has changed significantly in the last 5 to 10 years) which are protecting minorities in sometimes ridiculous situations when they are attackers and not victims.
Also category "minority" need to be redefined. Is it Muslim Algerian man in suburb of Marseille populated with majority of his countrymen and even more Muslims really minority?

One example. If you have some dispute with Muslim man of color and that break into a fistfight, If you in affection mention anything in correlation with his faith or skin color he can easily won case in court by invoking on racially motivated attack even if he was a one who provoke conflict.
There is many similar cases.

Anyway, I think you're over exaggerating things little bit GSP.
 

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