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Peter Lyderik

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Any good this book?

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Dred_Roberts

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Unfortunately the book hasn't been release in the US. I'm planning on buying it when it is released on May 1st. I'm pretty sure though that it is on sale in Europe. Maybe some of the british could help us out. :) I'd also like to hear if it was any good.

I'm also waiting for this book. It will be released in August, in the US at least.
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Peter Lyderik

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About Legion of the lost. Salazar was only in the Legion for around a year, in 1REG after Castel, before he deserted. Info from Ralf, from somewhere else on this forum.
 

Eagle eye

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I'd spare yer cents and dîmes and buy Simon Murray's 'Legionnaire' instead.

Remember Salazar is a big wanker who deserted then returned to the FFL with a 'sense of honour' before deserting definitively. Don't exclude the intention to write a book on returning to the FFL after he deserted the first time round.

If you buy his book you put food in the plate of a deserter - and besmirch the issue of rememberance of each legionnaire who was KIA, wounded, mutilated and affected psychologically from PTSD during the FFL campaigns from its inception and to date. SHOW A LITTLE RESPECT FOR THESE LEGIONNAIRES BY NOT BUYING SALIZAR'S CRAP BOOK.

Tony Sloane's is another deserter who is wanting to cash in on the FFL. The preceding paragraph also applies to him.

Simon Murray's book is good for he captures the essence of legionnaire life in a diary form which remains an excellent anecdotal (informal ranconteur of events) reference of platoon and regimental life to this day.
 
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andersk

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crap, i just orderd the naked soldier, was it a bad choise ?
 

Eagle eye

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Peter Lyderik said:
How do you know Tony Sloane is a deserter?
Read the past posts, mate...and wind yer short neck in before I start having another go at ya as in the past....So, I conclude that we'd have to buy his book to find out if he deserted in the end and put food in his plate in doing so...Everyone on the board who takes the issue of rememberance seriously bar one, Take it from good source: TONY SLOANE is a deserter...

Lyderick: As you reminded the board, 'Don't forget Jean Genet', an well-know 'open' homosexual French playwright, who was a closet poofter in the FFL,...
 
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Nickfury

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Salazar was in the 2REG, not 1REG, and he was in for a year or so. He also doesn't need the money as he makes very good money and had a very good career, didn't even make any worth $ mentioning. Money wasn't a factor in writing the book for him or most guys. You don't join the Legion to make money off of the books you write after your service.

Guys who write Legion books don't make any money off the books really, almost nothing. Even Evan McGorman didn't sell many books and made almost nothing and he wrote a great informational book from the perspective of a man who did 5 yrs in the REP. I know friends who have written books in other fields, most people are lucky to make 5-10 grand TOTAL for their books and lucky to sell a couple thousand copies, that is doing GOOD. The 1% of authors who make 100grand or more are rare obviously. Just like only 1% of actors or atheletes makes any money.

Books on the Legion are a sub genre, underground phenomenon. Probably the only guys to really make money on books written in English were Simon Murray and possibly Jennings.

I will say that reading these books, and talking to guys who have been in the Legion that some guys just can't adapt to the Legion and it sounds to me like it is just as well that they leave. I know many of those who do 5+ years feel resentment towards those who deserted and didn't finish their contracts.
Yet at the same time I have a couple friends who did 5 yrs and could care less about the deserters, many of whom or non-hackers and my friends felt it was good they left and were no longer a burden to the Legion, but at the same time they also knew top guys who deserted, from Dinops or GCP, guys who were the best men in the company and so forth, some got better opportunites or left for family reasons or just had a balls full of the crap.
The guys I knew said there wasn't anyone they knew who didn't consider desertion at one time or another.

McGorman brings up points on desertion in his book, many guys from the West join for adventure and action and fighting and when they find the reality of constant Corvee and role calls and restrictions and lack of action they just want out.

There is also the issue that I know Jennings and Salazar and others have dealt with is the beatings by a caporal or sergeant who took a disliking to them and made life a living hell. Sometimes like for Jennings it is deserved by being a **** up, I do know of a couple of guys (friends who went) who were picked on for no apparent reason other than they were smaller, and were from a nation or group that the Caporal disliked with a passion and there was a lack of oversight to stop that kind of abuse from happening.

There is so much talk of the Legion being changed and having no more abuse but it is hit or miss, i have friends who served in the mid 90's and saw no abuse, know guys who joined in 99/2000/2003/2004, some saw very little abuse, others saw beatings and abuse at an insane scale, where caporals used recruits as punching bags and even went as far as to deliberately cause permanent injury to recruits (disabling someone) and chosing some certain people to pick on and brutalize.

Clearly light 'corrective' action has its place from time to time, but not regularly and not without oversight to the point of making life a personal playground of abuse for psycho caporals. It seems oversight and tolerance for abuse by superiors varies greatly talking to guys who were in. One friend who was beaten to a pulp regularly along with his fellow recruits said that in another section the guys were never touched and got on fine with the caporals. Luck of the draw.

Obviously abuse can still happen despite the Legion becoming more a part of the French Army and 'softer' according to some friends who served 5 yrs in the 90's. One friend bemoaned the lack of physical 'correction' when he left saying the new recruits coming to the regiment came out cocky and didn't have that look of fear and being drained and awed by the whole Legion experience. 5 yrs later another friend said abuse was normal. Some saw only abuse doled out to those who were non-hackers or **** ups or physically unable to do sports or run or had cry baby attitudes while others saw caporals beat everyone and any one regardless because they could and the officers and higher ups ignored or were oblivious.

Clearly abuse without reason and with no oversight can be a strong contributing factor in a lot of guys saying "**** it" and making a runner. Salazar was at 2REG when it was first formed. I won't make excuses for him but will say that I talked to him and others who served with him and at the same time. Initially 2REG was filled with a core group from 1REG (former 6REG) and then filled with tons of recruits coming out of Castel, but also many non hackers from other regiments were dumped there. Morale was rock bottom and desertions high, stuck way up at an isolated base, cold, no entertainment and rampant drug use and abuse, many cases of certain caporal mafia's from one group (ie Russians or French) beating the crap out of another group or picking on certain people.
Everyone I talked to warned me to never go to 2REG if your life depended on it, said it was a shit hole.

I don't know if things changed, i would imagine it has, i heard the chain of command became very upset and concerned due to abuse, desertions and drug use and officers tried to crack down, people were thrown in jail, people kicked out and so forth. Apparently even with all the bs in 2REG they still had a few units doing fine such as the winter warfare/mountain force (forgot the name) who were off training all the time.

Keep in mind I am not passing judgement on the Legion or making excuses for deserters. I myself, want to join the Legion and am confident I can make it. I do know some friends who went and didn't succeed often had very very very unrealistic expectations of what to expect there or either rubbed people the wrong way, or didn't perform to the expected standards or had other issues that came up under stress and they were not able to deal properly with it. Some people were not meant to be in the Legion but I also think blatant and extreme use of beatings and abuse is unacceptable when it goes so far as to be used to terrorise whole sections without purpose and with no supervision or oversight and used to settle racial/national vendetta's.

Guys who desert due to regular and massive beatings for no apparent reason have a valid reason for leaving, especially if they are top performers physically (running and PT, 2nd best in his section) and in military skills (prior military) and were beaten due to personal vendettas and had no response or recourse through the higher chain of command (problem was ignored).
I am not saying desertion is the best decision for someone in that situation but it is to be expected that it will happen and it is hard to blame someone in such a situation, especially if the person in question otherwise loved the Legion experience and went on to serve with distinction in their own military and are close to qualifying for SF units. Clear case of Legion losing good people due to bullshit and lack of oversight (yes, this example is based on the exp of a good friend who joined in 2003, I am not talking about Jaime Salazar).

Eagle Eye and other Anciens, keep in mind these comments are based on extensive talks with friends who served 5 yrs and a couple friends who went and didn't finish, as well as reading books. Not on personal experience as I haven't served yet. So I am not trying to sound like a know it all or argue with you, I mean let's face it, you were there, I wasn't. But I think my points are valid, though I do understand that standards on these things vary and there are always anomalies, isolated events and so forth. Most guys who leave had massively unreal expectations of the Legion, or were non hackers due to a variety of reasons, some had other reasons. But regardless I do agree one should honor one's commitments.


-Nick
 

Rapace

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Nickfury : thanks for a well documented and balanced post about this 'touchy' issue of desertion. Although, as a matter of principles, I can hardly accept this, one must recognise that some deserters (I say some, not all) have mitigating circumstances. Let alone those who were 'forced to desert' by the cadre for being unfit.
 

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Nick Fury,

I can appreciate that people don't make much money from their books but any book that gives a single centîme/red cent to a deserter needs to be used as toilet paper....

In my times of real and verifiable difficulty in the FFL, I lived by three very basic mantras:

Firstly, I had given my word and signed up for five years - no more or less - regardless of the difficult situations and people besides the mindless and endless corvées.

Secondly, any difficulty that I experienced in the FFL paled in comparison with those by legionnaires in the battlefields strewned with FFL dead and heroes that make the essence of the rememberance in the FFL and its battles.

Thirdly, focus on the positive people and personalities in your platoon or company (junior and senior NCOs and officer who should be/is among the best the French Army and St. Cyr has to provide) and downplay (in your mind...) those you don't think those highly of so that they don't drag you down to their level and demotivate you...

I respected fellow legionnaires as a corporal but there was one occasion when one truly below par Frenchman didn't do well despite 'sheperding' for a few weeks. I didn't touch him but after a while I told him: "Demain, tu désertes, tu piges..." He was gone in the morning and just as well...so, I'll agree in such cases but printing a book afterwards is not the next step to mitigate let alone justify the act of desertion. There was one dude on the board, Petar, who didn't publish books but posted 'his experience from Hell in the REP' on this board as kind of therapy but also warning to all wannabes: I started a thread on his warning: 'Petar's experience: a warning to wannabes'...
 
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Rapace

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I made a link to Nickfury's post in the FAQ sticky (item Desertion in section "Vie à la Légion").
 

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Thanks Patrick and Eagle for understanding that I was not apologizing for deserters.

Even my friend who excelled in sport and military training and who was singled out for relentless beatings says he regrets leaving, he said he prepared for everything but not that. It took it right out of him, he is a small guy but a tough athlete, the caporal in question was a huge guy about a foot taller and 100lbs heavier (my friend admits he cracked mentally under the beatings). He just 'lost it' and left. So I understand why he left and can even see that it would make sense but I was very disappointed that he left as he was a good friend and I was sure he would make it unlike a couple friends who went before him, and felt he should have stuck it out. He was also disapointed in himself but couldn't understand why the cadre let this kind of abuse happen. A good example for guys going that you have to be prepared for anything and everything and make a firm commitment to stick it out, despite, boredom, or stupidity or pain or whatever, see it as a personal test, or like Eagle Eye, realize how much easier you have it than the guys who fought and died in the past, if you can't even handle "this" how can you expect to deal with real combat should you be faced with it.

You both make excellent points that one must honor the contract.

Eagle Eye, your mantra is a damn good one. That kind of thinking works in life in so many circumstances, any job or career can be misery depending on our outlook. But just an attitude adjustment and realizing how fucking lucky we are and how much easier than those who came before can make a world of difference. I agree with you on the issues of rememberance. Both for the Legion and for all those who served and fought and died fighting in wars past. Many of us live in peace because of them and their sacrifices.

Perhaps most of us have grown soft because of our western lifestyles or outlooks and modern conveniences and are unable to accept a reduction of the freedoms and pleasures of our modern lives.

I did have one good friend tell me that guys who leave before they even get to Regiment haven't even seen the REAL Legion yet. He said the guys who left by choice in Aubagne or in Castel, whether officially or desertion made choices based on a skewed view of the Legion. He told me point blank that they quit before they started, if they thought that was the "Legion" they were wrong and so many guys go off to tell stories about how lame or unorganized or messed up the Legion is were talking from only experiencing Castel, never a real combat regiment. Even if they got the Kepi, he said they were the guys who "been there, didn't do that", they never gave it a real chance and talked themselves out of it, "excused" themselves out with any number of "reasons" why they should leave.

But he also made a point that life is VERY hard the first year or two but it is your time to earn your place there, you get the brunt of the crap, since it rolls downhill, but things get better and you will gain the respect of your superiors by hard work and not complaining. It does get better and there are rewards, more training, schools, overseas postings, less BS and chances for promotion etc. They guys who bitch about the Legion and slander it were the non hackers, the last in sport, constantly drunk or unable to adapt or conform.

He and other Anciens said guys who go and quit went with a weak motivation and were perhaps subconciously looking for the first good reason to leave. I think the Legion understands this to some extent and Aubagne/Castel can serve to weed those with a tendency to make excuses or give up easy/look for the easy way, rationalize why they left (ie, it is too unorganized, training sucks, or "they told me I would only wait tables in the officers mess" or "I felt bad being there when there were so many guys from 3rd world nations who were there cause life was so bad at home and I had it so good, so I left" etc)

In his mind most legionnaires tried to avoid Castel after they left basic and said that what went on at Castel was a process you had to go through, a weeding out process, a mind **** to break you down, and get you to conform to the Legion and to another culture and language and forces dozens of races and nationalities and cultures and language groups and religions to cooperate as a single unit. By its nature the process of taking hundreds of guys who don't share language or identity or culture or ANYTHING into a lean mean unit is a crazy process at times. Forming a group Identity and finding those who will follow orders and truely want to be there and who will stick it out in times of hardship is a high priority. If this meant forming a group mentality by terrorizing them, then so be it as long as it was done with purpose and controlled.

Several Anciens echoed to me this idea:
That Too many guys go hoping the Legion will conform to THEIR expectations and to get action and adventure for personal glory. The Legion won't conform to the individual, they conform to the Legion or leave. You are there to serve the Legion, not the other way around.

Ideas of a romantic past are just fancy. They Legion has always been hard, has always, like any Army had vast stretches of routine, boredom, and petty rules followed by periods of pure terror, adrenaline and action. Accounts from the very inception of the Legion to now talk of brutality, or boredom or madness, drunkeness, fights, poor tactics, poor leadership, 'mafia's' etc, yet the Legion has continued to exist, to produce great soldiers, great leaders, to fight, to win, and if not win, to fight with valor, and distinction, and the Legion continues to endure. It conforms to no one's expectations or dreams or desires.

nite guys,
Tired.
-Nick
 
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Rapace

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Peter Lyderik said:
And all I wanted to know was, is the book any good.
:)
Another example of 'thread hi-jacking' :) . Apparently nobody's yet read this book... or bothered to reply. Better luck next time ?
 

Rapace

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This story about a guy being singled out and beaten for no reason reminds me of a post by Petar (a former legionnaire, deserter, who contributed a couple of times some months ago). In my own opinion, the cadre that overlook this kind of situation fail in their duty. There can be various reasons for that : because they don't want to get into trouble or have an argument with their (more experienced) subordinates, like in the case of a young officer, platoon leader, because they consider this as 'normal' since themselves were abused when young recruits, because they just don't care... In any case, losing a 'good man' (I say a good man, not a real fucker) just for not wanting/being able to stop this is not in the Legion's interest and should be put to the responsible's debit.
 

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In Bonifacio, I came the worst kind of nutter early on in the contract. I mean a complete and total nutter called Louvier, his Legion name and no more since 'rectification': he was in out of jail for thirty days three times with a weekend between each 'tour of duty' in the regimental jail. he specialised in newcomers and I had among others to endure his particular and specific pathology. In fact, the junior NCOs in the platoon and some sergeants trembled in their boots when he was on 'caporal de jour'. In the evenings, he would call individual newcomers for a hazing in his drunken stupor ....

The worst hazing that I witnessed was Becket, and son of a French Army officer, crawl under the beds and between the smelly platoon boots and ultra clean hallways and floors of the entire platoon with his dirty skivvies between his teeth and before crawling down staircases for a 'GI shower': brillo pads and cleaning agent. The 'company admin office/la semaine didn't intervene despite the clear screams form the shower block. He deserted soon after. Another young French character was made to do push-ups underneath a bayonet and was taken out of the regiment soon after. Remote places bring out the worse in people and the isolation of Bonifacio was bad enough to bring such impulses to the fore. Louvier was eventually knobbled for arms parts trafficking with a REP sergeant and both were sent to Tahiti. He came back as disciplined as a soldier should be from the start but after only seven years. A prolonged breaking-in process. He hailed me over for a quiet drink in Nîmes and we shook hands with the advice not to go to Tahiti...

Sergent-chef Zurga didn't mind this hazing but Sgt Alladin did mind and paid unheralded visits to the platoon to stop such events. Both were REPmen and in the end Alladin knobbled Zurga for the arms trafficking...Each represented the struggle between the good and bad impulses in the FFL mindset..
 
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Eagle eye

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Patrick Hervier said:
Another example of 'thread hi-jacking' :) . Apparently nobody's yet read this book... or bothered to reply. Better luck next time ?
Perhaps threads on books written by deserters should be a tacit 'no-no' for they're definitely qualified and nuanced against the FFL between the 'book ideal' and the eyewitness accounts on this board (Beau Sheep where are you ?) of its daily or periodic hard, harsh, rasping and visceral reality....
 
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