Combat stress

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Tom_G

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#21
The same way some soldiers hear gunfire and run towards it and others duck for cover(Marines).
And it's no surprize your profile says student... What a lack of situational awareness... jezzzzz man
G
 
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0341Grunt

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#22
I think there is a major difference between seeing death daily in a hospital environment and getting strafed, shelled, mortared, machine gunned and snipped at constantly on a daily basis. I don't think any training can simulate it without killing half the training platoon or more. I believe that is what is meant here.
I have met several combat veterans from WW2 or Vietnam. Training gets you to the battlefield and keeps troops from getting into too much trouble in garrison, gets them conditioned and gives them something to do (keeps them out of trouble). After the shit hits the fan training can only get you so far. Again I am talking about "heavy combat." A good book to read is "With The Old Breed" about the USMC on Okinawa and Peleliu. Hardened combat vets were getting broken on a daily basis. The author claims he was just lucky he didn't crack up. Any human can be broken. I don't care how elite they claim to be. But there is a small percentage of those that discover that they just love combat. Perhaps these are the ones more drawn to the "elite"/special forces type jobs, so they tend not to have any problems later in life....my 2 cts
 
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#23
Wow that's weird I recall one Marine Sergeant Major Dan Daly killing 200 Chinese by HIMSELF in the Boxer Revolution and another Marine named 1st Lt Brian Chontosh charged a cleared a trench killing 20 insurgents by HIMSELF in OIF. Another Marine Cpl Jason Dunham dived on a grenade and saved his mates. But then again Marines dive for cover in combat right.
 

Samtoo

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#24
Shell-shock is something completely different and is recognised as a battlefield affliction. These guys are talking about PTSD or STP or whatever the current fad acronym is.
 

Samtoo

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#25
The same way some soldiers hear gunfire and run towards it and others duck for cover(Marines)
You fucked up with THAT comment Jean!! What was that all about? Understand something..this is a Legion forum but we still respect other armed forces for the most part. You insulted the members on the forum that served in the Marine Corp and SOME served in both the USMC AND the Legion! What is wrong with you!?!?!??!
 
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#28
Ok now I see what all the fuss is about.

Ok what I was trying to say is that in the Marines the individuals are picked based partly on the personality or mental profile they are believed to have. Such people are the kind to RUN TOWARDS GUNFIRE. It's a typing error on my part.

Apologies guys. I meant no offence.
 

Tom_G

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#29
No fuss Jean, just a matter of respect, no worries about the typo-error. FYI, there is no personality profiling other than the type of men (or women) that choose to enlist in the USMC. Myself, 1975......by choice and proud of it. Legion 1980, by choice and even prouder.
Thanks for the clarification
G
 
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#30
Samtoo,:cool:

(a) I refer you to my comment; In genuine cases.
(b) I agree with the Adjt that there are some people swinging the lead and these craven people should be given short shift.
(c)Military docters, psychologists and psycho analysts concur that this phenomenon exists. Do you know better ?
(d)It is seperate to shell shock as experienced in both world wars and veterans in the UK nearly always outwardly displayed a stiff upper lip never discussing their innermost feelings or allowing an outflow of emotion.
(e) I re-iterate that to generalise that it relates to a specific regiment or training is utter nonsense and has little bearing on the subject. I submit however that it is a possibility that within units with a well established esprit de corps it is less likely to occur since with the buddy system unusual/abnormal behaviour will be picked up and passed up the chain.

At nearly 70 , I certainly consider that the golden oldies were mentally more robust, or possibly they were brought up to be less emotional Nevertheless I consider that this mental illness should be allowed some credibility until the medical profession states that it is utter codswallop.
Chas.:)
 

Aurelie3

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#31
Samtoo, you and I have spoken about "PTSD" in depth before - and I know you don't believe. But it exists.

Guys, don't take it to heart, Samtoo just doesn't "get it" despite me throwing evidence at him! ;)
 

ALEX LOCHRIE ✞

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#32
Well at least we have got some opinions on the subject.

I think some of you suffer from PTFD (Post Traumatic Finger Disorder) and like to type the first thing that come into your minds regardless of the content. Fair enough, that's what forums are there for, but please don't slag off guys who have served in whatever operational theatre and now have problems.

It doesn't matter a damn what part of social society they come from and there are lots of guys playing the system. But that leaves those who genuinely have a problem and those are the only ones I am concerned about.

It's a bit like when recruiting in the Legion. For every 500 who turn up at the gates trying to join, 490 are full of bullshit. It's the other 10 that get in. It's the same when assessing who is suffering from PTSD. The fakers slip on their own 'merde' (shit) quick enough.

I don't expect those of you who have no military or civil (Police/ambulance/Fire) service to understand the problem, but if you come onto a military forum for whatever reason, please respect those who have.

:cool: :cool:
 

Samtoo

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#33
Samtoo, you and I have spoken about "PTSD" in depth before - and I know you don't believe. But it exists.

Guys, don't take it to heart, Samtoo just doesn't "get it" despite me throwing evidence at him! ;)
Slapping me, prodding me mercilessly with that 'thing,' calling me unspeakable and undefinable names (fucktard?) is NOT convincing, nor what I would consider 'throwing evidence at him!' It was actually feces!! By the way Aurelie...your water-boarding needs some work...I dont think that was water..it smelled kind of like piss. If you thought you would provoke me into having PASD (Post Aurelie Stress Disorder) you are MISTAKEN! I am a man of stronger will and character!
 

Terry

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#34
Samtoo

So you don't think PTSD is a real medical condition or even exists. I guess you also believe that those of us you have battled episodes are frauds.

May I suggest you fly your asss over to this side of the pond and we can go visit almost evey Veterans Admistration hospital where you will find a specialty clinic that deals with PTSD. For those vets you don't trust the VA system we can go to numerous vet clinics, not run by the VA, and see groups talking about their experiences and how they have effected them

So you opinion is PTSD does not exist----REMEMBER Confucius said

"OPINIONS ARE LIKE ASSHOLES, EVERYONE HAS ONE
 

Samtoo

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#35
Samtoo

So you don't think PTSD is a real medical condition or even exists. I guess you also believe that those of us you have battled episodes are frauds.

May I suggest you fly your asss over to this side of the pond and we can go visit almost evey Veterans Admistration hospital where you will find a specialty clinic that deals with PTSD. For those vets you don't trust the VA system we can go to numerous vet clinics, not run by the VA, and see groups talking about their experiences and how they have effected them

So you opinion is PTSD does not exist----REMEMBER Confucius said

"OPINIONS ARE LIKE ASSHOLES, EVERYONE HAS ONE
Are you a news reporter? Prosecuting attorney? You didn't finish the quote and it takes on a completely different meaning without its proper ending. I dont believe it was a quote from Confucius, maybe your quote was from Confuseus, but at any rate the words that you omitted state...."and I am entitled to mine." People believe in chupacabras and worship the image of the Virgin Mary formed by the mold on a shower window. I say whatever....but I will never be convinced. My asss IS in the US but no, I dont want to go on a chupacabra hunt or debunking spree ala The Amazing Randi, but I will state my opinion whenever I feel like it. That statement is truer than you may think. If I did I'd probably wind up slapping a few of the vets and telling them to 'Get over it!' Especially the alcoholics or drug addicts...but that's just me.

Funny you mention the private sector. Every cause will find supporters and believers ... it generates income. Face it, America is a capitalistic society and people will jump at any opportunity...it is like a financial hurricane...the warm waters of bleeding hearts only strengthens the storm....but to me ....and I will quote Patrick...."it is only a storm in a teacup."
 

Terry

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#36
nSamtoo


I will defend MOST of my brothers who do suffer from PTSD. I've found a number of fraud wannabes and have exposed two claiming to be VN vets. Your info sheet says you are in the Virgin Island so to show you proof that the disorder exists go over to the VA outpatient clinic in St Thomas or St Croix. Also in these two towns are located vet centers. The vet center are NOT profit oriented, they are run by vets for vets Go sit in on one of the sessions and listen to the individuals speak of the effect of their past experiences and then say PTSD doesn't exist.

You are entitled to your opinion as am I but in my case there is so much evidence out there saying that PTSD is a legitimate illness and all the proof you put forth is your opinion.

If there is an individual claiming to suffer PTSD and is a fraud the others in the group will expose him in a moment. Sure there are indiviuals out there trying to scam the government for a pension but the government isn't that stupid. Over the years I've only know three indiduals to successfully apply for an obtain a disability claim based on PTSD and only one received 100%.

Because of my wounds, not for psycholical reasons, I'm in and out of my VA almost weekly and I talk to these guys a number of times and none of them are faking it. A good friend of mine a college professor. also a VN vet, two years ago had a MASSIVE breakdown (his 3rd) and is still in the VA. BOB WAS NO DRUNK OR DRUG USER. No matter how much clinical information is out there in the public saying that PTSD exists you won't believe it. FINE WITH ME care less what you think.

Go to your local library or book store and locate and read a copy of the 1983 Vietnam Veterans Adjustment Study you may learn something.

NO I'M NOT A NEWS REPORTER OR ATTORNEY.
 

Samtoo

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#37
Samtoo

So you don't think PTSD is a real medical condition or even exists. I guess you also believe that those of us you have battled episodes are frauds.
"Frauds" is such a harsh term. Below is some text from the Mayo Clinic:

"Increasing your risk :
Not everyone who experiences these kinds of traumatic events goes on to develop post-traumatic stress disorders. Some factors that may make you more likely to get PTSD after a traumatic event include:

- The traumatic event is especially severe or intense.
- The traumatic event was long-lasting.
- Having an existing mental health condition.
- Lacking a good support system of family and friends.
- Having family members with PTSD.
- Having family members with depression."

Four of the six risk factors have nothing to do with combat or stressful incidents of any kind! The 'afflicted' were loopy before any event occurred; now they have something to blame it on!! So I am back to my original contention concerning "combat stress" .....training and conditioning... but I will now add pre-screening to weed out the wacky. Not everyone is cut-out to be a soldier.

Perhaps that is why the Legion has no 'post combat stress disorder.' The CAPLE does a fine job of gardening. We suffer 'Post Legion Boredom'......hoooold meeeeee.
 

Terry

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#38
By quoting a Mayo Clinic study you are telling me you believe PTSD does exist to some extent-INTERESTING

At the time of the study I mentioned, middle of the 80s, the study stated of the Vn vets taking part 15% of the men and 9% of the women were said to be suffering some aspect of PTSD. Approximately 30% of the men and 27% of the women suffered from some aspect of PTSD after their time in Vn and their return home.

There is another study done by Harvard Medical Center, Columbia University and the state University of New York that came to the conclusion that approximately 12% of those interviewed high signs of PTSD and the disease was an ongoing problem and chronic. Fourteen years later the study showed the rates of PTSD had dipped only slightly.`

Do a google search on PTSD and Vietnam, there you will find studies supporting my position. There is going to be a major problem with our returning Iraq and Afghan vets in a few years and PTSD

All the training and conditioning in the world is NOT going to stop one from developing PTSD, it can help. You can train till you are blue in the face but until you face the realities of combat and all the stress that can develop you have no idea how you will react.

As for the Legion I can't comment on that nor would I.
 

ALEX LOCHRIE ✞

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#40
:( COMBAT STRESS
What a shame that everything has to degenerate to this level.
Yes we all have opinions and a forum is exactly about expressing them, but there are times when once we have said our bit, leave it at that.

There is also a place for a help-line, particularly on a military forum, for those who require it without all the degrading comments.

Despite what was said by some in the original post, there have been genuine ex and serving military who have contacted me to either just tell me about their problem or to ask where and how they can get help. So to them, well done it's a first step. I hope that any others who were thinking about getting in touch but have been put off by some of the comments, will do so.

This post is not intended to be the start of another slanging match so I ask the Moderators to close it.

Also a BIG thank you to those of you who have provided me with contact info for various parts of the world. This info will be passed to those requesting it.
 
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