Great Meeting

#3
If like me, you watched the whole sequence... She, Trumps wife, stood still (no fidgeting,no scratching, no bluffing), all thru a boring speach by Macron. Chapeau !
 

dusaboss

Hyper Active Member
#4
Sorry for what? I don't have nothing against good relationships between US and EU countries. What I don't like is the master-slave relationship which is going on for quite some time. Sorry mate, nothing personal, but anyone who thinks that European countries are totally independent from USA are In heavy denial or ignorance. I would like independent Europe, but with current state I'm afraid that is hardly achievable.
Anyway south boy, do you like idea to rule over other countries and nations? Don't you have nothing better to do, like hunting gators or something. Maybe eat crawfish, or start a fight with someone from New Orleans? :)

BTW I think Trump thought Macron want to say something to him not that he give him gesture of solidarity.

And BTW south boy from when you take your news from CNN ?!?
 
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USMCRET

Active Member
#5
Come on Dudaboss, was TOTALLY behind you on giving the mob weapons and having the serve in the different EU or NATO armies. I mean had had to get in that little fun jab.
 

dusaboss

Hyper Active Member
#6
Yes, and I'm behind you for many things. Doesn't mean that we have to agree about everything? We can have some disputes and still be friends. What relationship would be if you agree in everything with someone?
 

USMCRET

Active Member
#7
Look we don’t rule over EU Nations, we bring and bear the largest military burden. We pay the bills and bring the armor. I mean hey, if it is not appreciated then I am fine with scaling back NATO and spinning off some of the bums, not France and the UK.
Just a week or so ago I read an article where our Air Force C-17s we’re deployed to help get our French Army Brothers in Arms to Mali and some French fighter jets landed on our Carriers at Sea and completed exercises. Look, we are allies and damned good ones, go to the American Military Cemeteries at Normandy and other Western Europe Countries.
Look, we are allies and damned good ones, go to the American Military Cemeteries at Normandy and other Western Europe Countries
 

dusaboss

Hyper Active Member
#8
I hope we can have debate with out fight and hate, OK?

So I guess you know how much money US pouring in NATO? I mean with all of that it would be fair to give you little more power than others and I'm fine with that. But there also not so good things all behind that. for example... Every NATO member is mandatory to buy (take) American made weapons. Isn't it?

Who have benefits from this ? Ordinary Americans? Maybe few of them. Dirty big private companies have biggest benefit from that! And believe me once they become enough powerful they would move all production to China are somewhere (They already do that to some level). And once when high tech US weaponry start to be made in China... that gone be a problem for you.

Not to mention wars which are made partially to spend old weaponry and to charge bills for every bullet. Where that money goes?For every American live better? I would be more happy if that is a case.
 

dusaboss

Hyper Active Member
#10
Give back Serbia to Kosovo now!
Give back Vojvodina to the Austro-Hungarian Empire! "Kosovo is Serbia" is such a absurd political slogan used by politicians to stay in power and wash some money. I mean if someone today was giving Kosovo back to Serbia I'm sure we wouldn't know what to do with it. It would be just burden for Serbia.
As for “Give back Serbia to Kosovo now”. Please... :) Do you think that we were so active in any armed conflict around us for no reason at all? :)
 
#12
(...) Every NATO member is mandatory to buy (take) American made weapons. Isn't it? (...)
Well, i suppose NATO-members somewhat are under the pressure to buy American weapons, but i suppose there are reasons for that and those reasons are not "big companies". Of course NATO-members should buy weapons from its allies, and the US is the largest of those allies. On the other hand, the US buys weapons from other NATO-countries too.

First off all, the US had aided NATO problably more than you can imagine. From 1949 to 1996 Norway got 7 763 battle and transport vehicles, 479 artillery pieces, 171 068 guns, 100 000 tonss of ammunition and 624 planes and helicopters. As for US-Norwegian relations it would be quite silly if Norway was like "Hey, thanks for the shitloads of weapons we got, but we wont ever buy weapons from you".

There is a general agreement that the US produces some of the best, if not the best weapons in the world. With a quite strong purchasing power troughout many countries in NATO, these countries can afford to buy the best weapons available. Considering Russia and China, which NATO has some strained relationship with, it would be silly to buy weapons from them, even tough they make some great weapons.

If you look at the NATO forces, you would also see that they use a lot of EU-made weapons. How many in NATO has an American standard service rifle? Not many, if any

The same with the tanks, I don't even know if there are any in NATO that uses the Abrams. However, there are shitloads of American-produces personell carriers etc in other NATO-countries.

Planes, yes, a lot of American planes, but there are many EU-made planes in service, like the Eurofighter, Dassault Rafale or Mirage, Tornados, Agusta helicopters, Airbus transport-planes etc...

Ships, most build their own, and submarines are likely to be bough from larger EU-countries, like when Norway bought new submarines last year, Swedish, French and German design were considered. German design won.

Even tough other NATO-countries for sure buys a lot of weapons from USA, i really dont think they are mandatory to do so. As for taking weapons, who wouldnt want free weapons and considering that many countries couldnt afford weapons during the cold war. Think the French during the Indochina war got weapons from the US, as the French weren't able to make enough of their own. Those american tanks was really helpful during Dien Bien Phu, I heard. I don't think the US gives away weapons anymore like they did during the cold war, either.
 
#13
The Balkans. Well when I was at college studying Otto von Bismark's ; Gedanken und Erinnerunen, one prescient comment comes to mind. Quote ; "One day the Great European War will come out of some damned foolish thing in the Balkans." He stated this in 1888.

Another quote reference the Balkans ; "Not worth the bones of a single Pomeranian Grenadier !"
 
#14
(...) Every NATO member is mandatory to buy (take) American made weapons. Isn't it? (...)
This vision is a bit twisted... Some European countries decide to purchase American weapons (e.g. F35 fighter), some decide to build their own (Eurofighter, Rafale), some decide to buy weapons from other countries than the US (e.g. HK-416 for the French), and most opt for a combination of all previous options (e.g. Belgium stating they'll buy the F35 and at the same time armoured vehicles of the so-called Programme Scorpion from France).
There are some hard truths that will always remain: the US played a crucial role in the liberation of Europe in WW2, even if they weren't alone fighting the Nazis of course, and, without the US ‘umbrella’, Western Europe during the Cold War would probably have been overwhelmed by the Soviets. Let's not forget either the Mashall's plan that helped European countries to rebuild. Was that done only in pure humanity? Probably not, as it was also in the US interest not to see Western Europe taken over by the Soviets, but the end result is here: Western Europe lived in liberty for 50 years after the end of WW2. Now, I understand that, as an ex-Yugoslavia citizen, my arguments on the post-WW2 situation may not mean much to you since at that time you were on the other side of the iron curtain (even if Tito managed to prevent the Russkyis from being too intrusive).
All this said, does that mean I agree with everything the USA are doing on the international scene? Hell no... Does that mean that I'm seeing myself as a ‘slave’ in the hands of a fantasized American ‘master’? See previous reply. It's just that, like Pdt Macron said, I think we share more common values and interests with the USA than with any other ‘big country’. But, it's only me. Even in my own country not everybody would agree with me...
 

dusaboss

Hyper Active Member
#16
A bit to Austria, Hungary, Bosnia, Montenegro and Taiwan... Finito Serbia
Taiwan :) why not to Thailand? That way I could at least drink beer with Joe sometimes.

The Balkans. Well when I was at college studying Otto von Bismark's ; Gedanken und Erinnerunen, one prescient comment comes to mind. Quote ; "One day the Great European War will come out of some damned foolish thing in the Balkans." He stated this in 1888.

Another quote reference the Balkans ; "Not worth the bones of a single Pomeranian Grenadier !"
Yes, because he already knew that the stage for the Big War in Europe was already set. Anyone who knows a little bit of history knows that war has nothing to do (OK... a little bit) with the situation and events in Balkans. Big powers used that to start war among each other. Guns were already loaded well before assassination of Franz Ferdinand at Sarajevo.
 
#17
Germany is Europe's biggest arms supplier. My opinion only : we, the Europeans, should've opposed to the reunification. It is because of this, that we had the enlargement of the UE, cheap labour from Central Europe for the German industries and the Schengen agreement. It exasperated many UK citizens and provoked the Brit Exit.

Réduction is the key word and you will be hearing this word more often in the future. Super powers too big for their boots and the resentment felt by the weak/under developed increases. Sick and tired being used as pawns in their geo political maneuvers. Fake patriotism obedience is nothing other than a blind consommation addiction = you feel you need it (like a kid who can't give up his over used towel).
 
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dusaboss

Hyper Active Member
#18
(...) Now, I understand that, as an ex-Yugoslavia citizen, my arguments on the post-WW2 situation may not mean much to you since at that time you were on the other side of the iron curtain (even if Tito managed to prevent the Russkyis from being too intrusive). (...)
We were not part of the Cold War block division, apart from a few years, early after war!
 
#19
What happened behind the curtain should never have been the tax payer's concern. No such thing as "the good auld days". Instability is and always has been a constant stability that profits the arms industry and Politicians / Generals / Diplomats at our expense.

We were not part of the Cold War block division, apart from a few years, early after war!
No one wanted you.
 

dusaboss

Hyper Active Member
#20
(...) No one wanted you.
Good one. :)

But in reality both sides spent nice amount of money and weaponary in order to ... if not turn us on their side ... at least to keep us neutral. After the fall of the Berlin wall that money stopped pouring and some other complications happened and we all know the rest of Yugo story.
 

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