Le Bayou: Crawdad's home for derailed threads

Rapace

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I gently disagree with the nice little demoiselle in the documentary... :) I wouldn't translate “black pot” as “chaudière noire”, but rather as “marmite noire”. Chaudière is more a boiler. Funnily enough in French slang a “chaudière” is also a “hot” girl (meaning a tart...).
 
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Crawdad

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I gently disagree with the nice little demoiselle in the documentary... :) I wouldn't translate “black pot” as “chaudière noire”, but rather as “marmite noire”. Chaudière is more a boiler. Funnily enough in French slang a “chaudière” is also a “hot” girl (meaning a tart...)
Ouais, me too. I wouldn't call it a chaudière (any deep cooking vessel), but rather a chaudron, personally. On the other hand, I wouldn't refer to Mlle DeCulus as a “demoiselle” either. She's anything but a damsel.

bicheblanche.jpg chasseuse.jpg deculusuarc.jpg

Mais, vive la différence.
 
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Crawdad

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I take it you had difficulty understanding their (Cajun) accents. Don't feel bad, Dusa; I grew up around Cajuns; Cajuns and Créoles are as similar to each other as they are to anyone else (Some people even consider Cajuns to be a type of Créole-- kind of how all ethnic Serbs might be Slavs, but not all Slavs are Serbs---but, I digress). Point is, I don't understand 100% of what they say, either-- and these are my neighbors and distant relatives we're talking about. So of course a non-native speaker half the world away has a snowball's chance in hell of keeping up with a damned thing that comes out of Justin Wilson or Jourdan Thibodeaux's mouths.
 

dusaboss

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I take it you had difficulty understanding their (Cajun) accents. Don't feel bad, Dusa; I grew up around Cajuns; Cajuns and Créoles are as similar to each other as they are to anyone else (Some people even consider Cajuns to be a type of Créole-- kind of how all ethnic Serbs might be Slavs, but not all Slavs are Serbs---but, I digress). Point is, I don't understand 100% of what they say, either-- and these are my neighbors and distant relatives we're talking about. So of course a non-native speaker half the world away has a snowball's chance in hell of keeping up with a damned thing that comes out of Justin Wilson or Jourdan Thibodeaux's mouths.
Of course that was not original accent- It is "South Park" so that is parody on that accent.

Actually I understand most of it. I getting that is some south Louisiana accent, but its new to me that was "Cajuns". Never heard about this folk before. (and now there is Créole too?!? :) OMG). Anyway I would not compare that to Slavs-Serbs. I said that many times and I would say that again: if you say that Serbs are the same as all Slavs i would be like saying that all Germanic peoples are all one same. That means Germans, Swedes, English, Dutch etc. And even Americans are all the same because that are grouped based on language roots. Not really comparable to Louisiana subgroups?
 
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Crawdad

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My understanding is that Slavs are an ethnic group, deemed so due to cultural and linguistic similarities. I'm not saying that ethnic Slovenes, Poles, Czechs, and Ukrainians are the same, but I am saying that they share cultural similarities.

Put it another way. The Irish, Scots, Welsh, Cornish, Bretons, and Manx aren't the same peoples, but they're certainly classifiable as Celtic, linguistically and culturally. Perhaps that's the comparison I should have used.

"Actually I understand most of it. I getting that is some south Louisiana accent, but its new to me that was "Cajuns". Never heard about this folk before. (and now there is Créole too?!? :) OMG)."

Euh, what? You've been interacting with USMCRET ( A certified Cajun) and I ( A Créole, and vocally-- perhaps overly so) for a while, now. If we were snakes, we'd have bitten you.
 

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My understanding is that Slavs are an ethnic group,
I will not involve myself in conversation between you two about American demographic peculiarities (don't know much about it - but I enjoy listening, learning about it from the people themselves (you for example)), but you made me wanna bite you too with that claim. 🐍😉
I believe Duško will explain why.

(EDIT: Maybe I reacted too eager / harsh; similarities - yes definitely, but "ethnos" is what differentiates us, one from the other(s) .)
 
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Crawdad

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I will not involve myself in conversation between you two about American demographic peculiarities (don't know much about it - but I enjoy listening, learning about it from the people themselves (you for example)), but you made me wanna bite you too with that claim. 🐍😉
I believe Duško will explain why.

(EDIT: Maybe I reacted too eager / harsh; similarities - yes definitely, but "ethnos" is what differentiates us, one from the other(s) .)
Oh, If I'm wrong--- and it's dawning on me that I probably am--- just say so. The worst thing that will happen is that I'll admit that I was wrong, and I'll learn something in the process.
 

Perun

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Oh, If I'm wrong--- and it's dawning on me that I probably am--- just say so. The worst thing that will happen is that I'll admit that I was wrong, and I'll learn something in the process.
I may have swallowed my foot there. I started to write my comment, opened a few things in my browser and it seems you were right.
Al though, I was thought in school (or I wasn't paying enough attention): what binds us together (Slavs) is the origins/roots of our language, what sets us apart is our ethnicity / ies. To my surprise, definitions I read a few moments ago put those two terms together (ethno-linguistic group). I'll need some time (and reading) to wrap my mind around that, in the mean time - hats of ! Maybe it is just a question of semantics between non experts, but still.
I still think that the only ones I share the same ethnicity with, are my fellow Croats. Slavic languages have similarities, but most of them are not mutually understandable (exceptions exist like among Croats and Serbs). The difference between ethnicity and nationality, languages and dialects, etc, (where does one ends and the other begin, or overlap) should be considered as well.
 
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dusaboss

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My understanding is that Slavs are an ethnic group, deemed so due to cultural and linguistic similarities. I'm not saying that ethnic Slovenes, Poles, Czechs, and Ukrainians are the same, but I am saying that they share cultural similarities.
Not really. We share language roots and that's about it. Yes there is story in history that early Slavs are one tribe with common language, culture, mythology and beliefs and that is true, ,but you have to have in mind that apart from language, today Slavic nations don't have much in common with those early Slavs.
They separated long time ago. Like 1300 y (America exist just 300!). While migrating and settling in different areas they mixed with local population, adopting their and cultures of dominant nations around them. So you got very different nations depending on where they are geographically.
Put it another way. The Irish, Scots, Welsh, Cornish, Bretons, and Manx aren't the same peoples, but they're certainly classifiable as Celtic, linguistically and culturally. Perhaps that's the comparison I should have used.
As I said this comparison can be true only for some geographically close Slavic nations which closely share history and language.
Eg. Slovenians, Serbs and Macedonians would be something like Irish, Scots and Welsh,. But putting ... I don't know Poles and Belarus in first group would be same like adding Dutch and Norwegian to other.

Interesting fact. In aria of today Serbia there was Celtic tribe before and at time of Slavic arrival. They were probably mixed and absorbed along with Illyrians (and some other tribes) to make today's south Slavic nations. First name of Bellegarde was Singidunum and it was Celtic town.
 
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(...) Euh, what? You've been interacting with USMCRET (a certified Cajun) and I (a Créole, and vocally-- perhaps overly so) for a while, now. If we were snakes, we'd have bitten you.
You have done a good job introducing Dusa to Creoles and Cajuns... Now, the master's level course, coonasses.

My understanding is that Slavs are an ethnic group, deemed so due to cultural and linguistic similarities. I'm not saying that ethnic Slovenes, Poles, Czechs, and Ukrainians are the same, but I am saying that they share cultural similarities.

Put it another way. The Irish, Scots, Welsh, Cornish, Bretons, and Manx aren't the same peoples, but they're certainly classifiable as Celtic, linguistically and culturally. Perhaps that's the comparison I should have used.

"Actually I understand most of it. I getting that is some south Louisiana accent, but its new to me that was "Cajuns". Never heard about this folk before. (and now there is Créole too?!? :) OMG)."

Euh, what? You've been interacting with USMCRET ( A certified Cajun) and I ( A Créole, and vocally-- perhaps overly so) for a while, now. If we were snakes, we'd have bitten you.
Why is it the love emoji always pops up with the Humm emoji? Crawdad, there was a Priest in the Lafayette area and he took the Cajun language, well as best as one can due to the local dialects and different meanings, and turned it into an encyclopedia of sorts. My Nanny has it. You understand what a Nanny and Parrain are, Dusa? You will not understand at first who they are and what they mean to us.

Dusaboss, a little back ground on the Cajun Language, French. My dad only spoke French (Cajun) when he was a little boy. When it was time to go to school he had to learn English, he only knew Cajun, he was born and raised in the Pierre Part are of Louisiana. Now, when he went to school, I'm talking in the 40s, 50s, and 60s, there was a push to educate the “ignorant” Cajuns. So, the language became sort of taboo, the elderly, my great grand mother Gram, only spoke French (Cajun) and to the “educated”, this was not acceptable. So, the older people began to speak English, but at home they continued in French. But now, they started to ween their children off French especially if you grew up in a city type of area where I grew up, the Cajuns went to work in the oil fields of Louisiana and in the major industry. So, my dad, and grand parents along with aunts and uncles would only speak French to each other when they wanted private conversation and they did not want us to understand. But as you can imagine we learned certain words, in my case those words always involved being yelled at.

So, our language is dying and anyone like Crawdad that can understand it is a treasure, a real treasure and they should share and teach as much as possible. That was when a little boy like me goes to grandma's house and has to stare at a picture of Jesus with his immaculate heart because Gram is 90+ years old and does not speak a lick of English except for come here or hello/goodbye.
 

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Grandmother and grandfather?
Close, good guess, but your God Mother and God Father, so in Louisiana, they are everything to you. Like parent but they spoil you rotten. So you have a very strong tie and bond to them almost in some cases more than you do to your own parents. When you see your Nanny or Parin it's like Christmas.
 

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So is it plain French or mix with English? I know that probably isn't same as French in France today. Could they communicate with French People?
 

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So is it plain French or mix with English? I know that probably isn't same as French in France today. Could they communicate with French people?
French, Creole, and local dialect. Yes, they would be able too. Maybe slow it down a bit, but they could.

My grand parents birth records, the Catholic Church, were written in French. They were not born in hospitals. The records of the old people have to be obtained in the Catholic Church they were baptized in. A fact, if you did not know, the church in which you were baptized in will always hold your entire history, when you were born, baptized, made holy communion, confirmation, marriage, and death. Even though it happens in many churches over the course of your life, it is all sent back to the original parish church or diocèse.
 

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Swamp Pop is huge in our Cajun Heritage. Now, can a Frenchman, Rapace, understand the music and the language. A good experiment to check for understanding.


Also, this is Louisiana, where my family is from, it is beautiful.
 

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In Lafayette Louisiana, Arcadian Parish, you'd probably get the purest form of Cajun French and the closest to traditional French.
 

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French, Creole, and local dialect. Yes, they would be able too. Maybe slow it down a bit, but they could.

My grand parents birth records, the Catholic Church, were written in French. They were not born in hospitals. The records of the old people have to be obtained in the Catholic Church they were baptized in. A fact, if you did not know, the church in which you were baptized in will always hold your entire history, when you were born, baptized, made holy communion, confirmation, marriage, and death. Even though it happens in many churches over the course of your life, it is all sent back to the original parish church or Diocese
You didn't answer my question. So what is Creole? More French, more English or combination of two?
 

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And this Creole thing confused me all through. :)

I thought Louisiana it's just regular southern state like Alabama and Texas, but with swamps and alligators. :). Didn't had idea there is big French heritage or even French language spoken.
At least that was case until 50-100 y ago. And now everyone speak English. Because...? Because ...English is cool language to be spoken and we all like it. (y) There was democratic choice in all world on what language should be absolutely dominate and most people voted for English. :)
And that have absolutely nothing with England being major colonial power for last 500 y. ;) (well not anymore, but America took that torch and caring quit nicely in last 100 y)

I don't know, guess it's better than that we all spoke Chinese or Russian (or Hindi for sure. Man that language sound awful).
Anyway, I'm thrilled to learn new stuff about many parts of world which in another case it's hard to hear about. That's really great secondary feature of this site and FFL over all.
This new thing I learned shows me how diverse America is and how stupid is to put all Americans in one basket (Basket of deplorables? USMCRET I heard one evil looking old woman saying that on TV couple y ago :D).
I'm always saying that to people around me. "There is more than 300M people in that country. Do you really think they are all same and thinking same?" Even worse is when people putting all Slavs in same basket. It's not even comparable. But I guess, I'm not gonna shift people's opinion that. Or I will for those who are open minded and willing to learn... As for those who believe that we are all Russians ... I don't have words to spent. They would believe that no matter what. Because they don't care about facts.

As one of my old friends here would say (I guess he doesn't like me anymore :() Kind regards. Dusa!
 
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Swamp Pop is huge in our Cajun Heritage. Now, can a Frenchman, Rapace, understand the music and the language. A good experiment to check for understanding.


Also, this is Louisiana, where my family is from, it is beautiful.
very nice.
 
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Crawdad

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You have done a good job introducing Dusa to Creoles and Cajuns....now the masters level course, Coonasses.
Lol. Okay Class, bienvenue à "Coonassery 101: Makin' Groceries, Savin' Dishes, an' tings comme ça":
So is it plain French or mix with English? I know that probably isn't same as French in France today. Could they communicate with French People?
Louisiana French (LF) –
often called Cajun – is a dialect of French, not a separate language. LF speakers who are bilingual will sometimes throw in a bit of English here and there, but the dialect is not a mix of English and standard French. Remember, USMCRET's Great-Grandmother spoke but a few words of English; his father had to learn English in school. Neither of those things would be true had they been native speakers of some sort of Franglais.

You're correct, Louisiana French is not the same as standard French. Our pronunciation, spelling, and grammar are a couple of centuries out of date and we've incorporated more than a few Amerindian and West African words into our dialect. We've also repurposed some words to denote certain modern inventions-- for example, we don't use “voiture” for “car”. We say instead “char”, which used to just mean “cart” or “chariot” in standard French and now can means (battle) “tank”.

But can we communicate? Mais, oui.

You didn't answer my question. So what is Creole? More French, more English or combination of two?
Louisiana Creole (Kreyòl Lwyzien)--sometimes called Kouri-Vini-- is a separate language, not a dialect of French. It's similar to Haitian Creole in that its vocabulary is based on French, but its grammatical structure, spelling, and pronunciation have been heavily influenced by West African languages. To the point that it's no longer mutually intelligible with standard French. Here's an example of the same sentence in all 3:

• Standard French: Je ne le vois pas.( I don't see it.)
• Louisiana/Cajun French: Moi'j le vois pas.
• Louisiana Creole: Mo wa pa li.

Note that neither of the two have been influenced by English, and here's why: Louisiana French began developing as a dialect by 1699 (The year Biloxi, Mississippi, the first permanent French settlement in la Louisiane was founded); Louisiana Creole begins to develop as a language in 1722, when the first slave ship docks at Biloxi and deposits its cargo of Africans (largely from the Congo, Senegal, and Ghana) at Mobile, Alabama, and New Orleans. The first Acadiens – who will become the Cajuns – start arriving in south Louisiana in the early 1760's, and refugees fleeing the Haitian revolution start arriving at New Orleans around 1800, which gives further Afro-Caribbean influence to the Louisiana Creole language. The United States will gain parts of the former Louisiana colony in 1783, 1803, and 1811; but will not fully possess la Louisiane until 1819. The inhabitants of the most rural parts of this territory weren't even being forced to start learning English until after the Great War; in 1921, an amendment to the state constitution of Louisiana is passed prohibiting the use of French in schools (except to be taught as a “foreign” language).

There is such a thing as Cajun English, which is the mix of English and French (and other things) you've correctly assumed exists. That one is spoken as far west as Houston, Texas and as far east as coastal Alabama, but like Cajun French, it's centered around Lafayette, LA. It's still a dialect of English, but it's heavily influenced by French--- the grammar is non-standard, so it's not just an accent.
 

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