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Joseph Cosgrove

Joseph Cosgrove

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You are right Joe. Just one thing, as you said MiGs do not follow on in numerical order so 31 is not next 29. Next 29 is MIG 35 multirole fighter based on 29 and MIG 31 is interceptor bassed on MIG 25
  • MiG-1 - 1940 fighter
  • MiG-3 - 1940 fighter and interceptor
  • MiG-9 - 1946 fighter, MiG's first jet
  • MiG-15 - 1947 fighter, the world's first modern jet, the world's most-produced jet
  • MiG-17 - 1950 fighter (based on the MiG-15)
  • MiG-19 - 1952 fighter, MiG's first supersonic fighter, the world's first mass-produced supersonic
  • MiG-21 - 1956 fighter and interceptor, the world's most-produced supersonic, that would be widely exported and become the backbone of dozens of air forces
  • MiG-23 - 1967 fighter and fighter-bomber, the world's most-produced variable-geometry aircraft
  • MiG-25 - 1964 interceptor and reconnaissance aircraft, the world's fastest mass-production aircraft
  • MiG-27 - 1970 ground-attack aircraft derived from the MiG-23.
  • MiG-29- 1977 air superiority fighter and multirole fighter
    • MiG-29M, improved variant.
      • MiG-29K - 1988 carrier-based multirole fighter and the naval variant of the MiG-29M.
  • MiG-31 - 1975 interceptor (based on the MiG-25)
  • MiG-35 - 2007 multirole fighter and air superiority fighter (based on the MiG-29)
 
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  • MiG-1 - 1940 fighter
  • MiG-3 - 1940 fighter and interceptor
  • MiG-9 - 1946 fighter, MiG's first jet
  • MiG-15 - 1947 fighter, the world's first modern jet, the world's most-produced jet
  • MiG-17 - 1950 fighter (based on the MiG-15)
  • MiG-19 - 1952 fighter, MiG's first supersonic fighter, the world's first mass-produced supersonic
  • MiG-21 - 1956 fighter and interceptor, the world's most-produced supersonic, that would be widely exported and become the backbone of dozens of air forces
  • MiG-23 - 1967 fighter and fighter-bomber, the world's most-produced variable-geometry aircraft
  • MiG-25 - 1964 interceptor and reconnaissance aircraft, the world's fastest mass-production aircraft
  • MiG-27 - 1970 ground-attack aircraft derived from the MiG-23.
  • MiG-29- 1977 air superiority fighter and multirole fighter
    • MiG-29M, improved variant.
      • MiG-29K - 1988 carrier-based multirole fighter and the naval variant of the MiG-29M.
  • MiG-31 - 1975 interceptor (based on the MiG-25)
  • MiG-35 - 2007 multirole fighter and air superiority fighter (based on the MiG-29)
GEEZE Joe are you a train spotter too? 😁
 
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Joseph Cosgrove

Joseph Cosgrove

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Happy New year + 08 mins. (Thailand) However I'd prefer that we give our New year's greetings on another thread,
 

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  • MiG-1 - 1940 fighter
  • MiG-3 - 1940 fighter and interceptor
  • MiG-9 - 1946 fighter, MiG's first jet
  • MiG-15 - 1947 fighter, the world's first modern jet, the world's most-produced jet
  • MiG-17 - 1950 fighter (based on the MiG-15)
  • MiG-19 - 1952 fighter, MiG's first supersonic fighter, the world's first mass-produced supersonic
  • MiG-21 - 1956 fighter and interceptor, the world's most-produced supersonic, that would be widely exported and become the backbone of dozens of air forces
  • MiG-23 - 1967 fighter and fighter-bomber, the world's most-produced variable-geometry aircraft
  • MiG-25 - 1964 interceptor and reconnaissance aircraft, the world's fastest mass-production aircraft
  • MiG-27 - 1970 ground-attack aircraft derived from the MiG-23.
  • MiG-29- 1977 air superiority fighter and multirole fighter
    • MiG-29M, improved variant.
      • MiG-29K - 1988 carrier-based multirole fighter and the naval variant of the MiG-29M.
  • MiG-31 - 1975 interceptor (based on the MiG-25)
  • MiG-35 - 2007 multirole fighter and air superiority fighter (based on the MiG-29)
Thats what im saying. There is MiG 31 made in year 75. and than you have MiG 29 in 77.
 
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Joseph Cosgrove

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The Jaguar (Fighter)
I was reading up on history of what happened today through out history: In 1987, the French Air Force Staged a Daring Raid on Libyan Defenses With a patrol plane as bait, French fighter jets, Jaguars, targeted radar sites.

Here is a quick history lesson leading up to the attack: In 1983 and 1984, France intervened in the war between Chad* and Libya. Paris’ Operation Manta** established a “red line” along the 15th parallel, cutting the country into two - a blocking position meant to stop any advance by Libyan troops and Chadian rebels, known as GUNT, into southern Chad. Chad was in the throes of a civil war that escalated when Libyan strongman Muammar Gaddafi backed Chadian rebel leader Goukouni Oueddei. Libyan troops and Chadian rebels occupied northern Chad. France was determined to protect what was left of Chad — its former colony (1900-1960)— from Libyan influence. In order to block the Libyan and GUNT advance towards the N'Djamena, the capitol, thus saving the Chadian President Hissène Habré.

The Libyan and rebel forces also avoided attacking across the Red Line and provoking the French. The resulting impasse led to the de facto partition of Chad, with the Libyans and the GUNT in the north and Habré and the French in central and southern Chad. To end this stalemate, French President François Mitterrand (b1916- d1996) and Libyan leader Muammar Gaddafi negotiated a mutual withdrawal of their countries' troops from Chad in September 1984. The accord was respected by the French, thus signing the end of Operation Manta, but not by the Libyans, whose forces remained in Chad until 1987 (they did, however, continue to respect the Red Line). The violation of the 15th parallel caused a renewed French intervention in Chad under Operation Epervier*** and the expulsion of Libyan forces from all Chad except for the Aouzou Strip, in the north of Chad, the following year.

So what happened?
Jan 1987:
For days, French patrols continued near the 16th parallel. But Paris had something bigger in mind. In retaliation for Libya crossing of the red line and bombing French troops, the French planned to attack a Libyan base — either Maaten Al Sahra, Aouzou or Ouadi Doum. All were Libyan bases inside of Chad. Pr Mitterand decided on Ouadi Doum, the base’s air-defense radars -P15 Tropa NATO: Flat face A. Extremely mobile. The Libyans had rushed reinforcements to the facility with five SA-6 missile sites plus eight quad-gun ZSU 23-4s. In other words very well defended. On Jan. 6, 1987, the Jaguars prepared to launch from foggy Bangui Central African Republic)*
Two C-135Fs awaited the Jaguars south of the 16th parallel. However the mission was called off because the radars were turned off (perhaps from a tip off). Without a target to hone in on, they had to call off the attack. However not to be out done, on the next day the 7th of Jan, the French sent two Mirages to ‘light up the radars’. The 8 jaguars circling around the two C135F tankers were given the green light.
The Jaguars were 50 miles south of their objective, flying at 500 knots (926 k/h) and 200 feet (61m) i.e. very fast and very low. Only one team managed to achieve their objective as the other failed to lock on to a target. It did prove one thing to Gaddafi and the rebels, that if they had wanted to, the French were capable of destroying their radar defenses and therefore their planes on the ground.
* Old stamping grounds.
** I'm quite sure that Mark has taken part in this.
*** I was there ;) I'm sure that Pink Floyd was also.
 
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MiG 15 UTI
Designation name: Midget

1578640472439.png



NATO Designation: Midget, eh? Hmmm,

Am I the only to notice that NATO classifications tend to belittle their “enemy’s” planes. I mean names like:
'Madcap' (An-71) 'Mole' (Be-8) 'Mule' (Po-2) and my favorite 'Mug' (Be-4)
Whereas when they are talking about their own they give them names like:
Eagle (F15) Sabre (F 86) Lightening (F35) Typhoon (Eurofighter)

Why does NATO give them classification names? Among other things it is for easy radio communications. Rather than giving out their official names followed by Numbers, it is easier to assign them a Name. Much like the NATO alphabet; it avoids confusion.
An example: for a Frenchman the E, I G and J are said differently than in English. Having one common name for the alphabet makes comms a lot easier, so E is Echo, I is India, G is Golf , J is Juliet so on.

For aircraft it is the same; Tomcat to control “ I have just spotted two Fishpots* (Su-9) One Frogfoot* (Su25) and a couple of Russian Flankers* (Su 27). I repeat, a couple of Russian Flankers, F as in Foxtrot.” **

The Soviet Union did not always assign official "popular names" to its aircraft, but unofficial Nicknames were common as in any air force Generally, Soviet pilots do not use the NATO names, preferring a different, Russian, nickname. An exception was that Soviet airmen appreciated the MiG-29's code name "Fulcrum",*** as an indication of its pivotal role in Soviet air defense
*Designation Names.
** Thought I’d lighten things up a little.
*** Fulcrum meaning : a thing that plays a central or essential role in an activity, event, or situation.

Which reminds me that today, January 10th is the 90th anniversary of The Los Angeles International Air Meet (January 10 to January 20, 1910) was among the earliest airshows in the world and the first major airshow in the United States. It was held in Los Angles, at Carson California, then known as Dominguez field. Spectator turnout numbered approximately 254,000 over 11 days of ticket sales. The Los Angeles Times called it "one of the greatest public events in the history of the West."
 

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The Jaguar (Fighter)
I was reading up on history of what happened today through out history: In 1987, the French Air Force Staged a Daring Raid on Libyan Defenses With a patrol plane as bait, French fighter jets, Jaguars, targeted radar sites.

Here is a quick history lesson leading up to the attack: In 1983 and 1984, France intervened in the war between Chad* and Libya. Paris’ Operation Manta** established a “red line” along the 15th parallel, cutting the country into two - a blocking position meant to stop any advance by Libyan troops and Chadian rebels, known as GUNT, into southern Chad. Chad was in the throes of a civil war that escalated when Libyan strongman Muammar Gaddafi backed Chadian rebel leader Goukouni Oueddei. Libyan troops and Chadian rebels occupied northern Chad. France was determined to protect what was left of Chad — its former colony (1900-1960)— from Libyan influence. In order to block the Libyan and GUNT advance towards the N'Djamena, the capitol, thus saving the Chadian President Hissène Habré.

The Libyan and rebel forces also avoided attacking across the Red Line and provoking the French. The resulting impasse led to the de facto partition of Chad, with the Libyans and the GUNT in the north and Habré and the French in central and southern Chad. To end this stalemate, French President François Mitterrand (b1916- d1996) and Libyan leader Muammar Gaddafi negotiated a mutual withdrawal of their countries' troops from Chad in September 1984. The accord was respected by the French, thus signing the end of Operation Manta, but not by the Libyans, whose forces remained in Chad until 1987 (they did, however, continue to respect the Red Line). The violation of the 15th parallel caused a renewed French intervention in Chad under Operation Epervier*** and the expulsion of Libyan forces from all Chad except for the Aouzou Strip, in the north of Chad, the following year.

So what happened?
Jan 1987:
For days, French patrols continued near the 16th parallel. But Paris had something bigger in mind. In retaliation for Libya crossing of the red line and bombing French troops, the French planned to attack a Libyan base — either Maaten Al Sahra, Aouzou or Ouadi Doum. All were Libyan bases inside of Chad. Pr Mitterand decided on Ouadi Doum, the base’s air-defense radars -P15 Tropa NATO: Flat face A. Extremely mobile. The Libyans had rushed reinforcements to the facility with five SA-6 missile sites plus eight quad-gun ZSU 23-4s. In other words very well defended. On Jan. 6, 1987, the Jaguars prepared to launch from foggy Bangui Central African Republic)*
Two C-135Fs awaited the Jaguars south of the 16th parallel. However the mission was called off because the radars were turned off (perhaps from a tip off). Without a target to hone in on, they had to call off the attack. However not to be out done, on the next day the 7th of Jan, the French sent two Mirages to ‘light up the radars’. The 8 jaguars circling around the two C135F tankers were given the green light.
The Jaguars were 50 miles south of their objective, flying at 500 knots (926 k/h) and 200 feet (61m) i.e. very fast and very low. Only one team managed to achieve their objective as the other failed to lock on to a target. It did prove one thing to Gaddafi and the rebels, that if they had wanted to, the French were capable of destroying their radar defenses and therefore their planes on the ground.
* Old stamping grounds.
** I'm quite sure that Mark has taken part in this.
*** I was there ;) I'm sure that Pink Floyd was also.
3Cie flew into Chad late 1990...intervention. I always thought we shot the then president Hissene Habre, and threw him down a dry well. It was only years later that I learnt he got away. A lot of the CIA boys at N’Djamena airport running around during that one.
 

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Did you know… No this is not the beginning of a joke. An Iraqi captain Munir Radfa defected to Israel (of all places!) on the 16th of August 1966? I mean of all the places to defect he chose Israel. Oh, and he took his MiG 21 with him. :whistle: The Mossad was very interested in this most performant Russian plane and were willing to pay a lot of money to get their hands on one. Officially they paid Munir a $million dollars and got his family out. Who knows. It could be true (the $1m, because Munir did throw in a couple of training and tactical manuals).

The knowledge gained helped Israel during the Arab-Israeli wars between ’67-’73, ” Know yourself , Know your enemy” *

Once the Israeli’s had gleaned the maximum of knowledge from Munir, they ‘loaned’ the Mig 21 to the US. They could have used wind tunnels and studied the manuals, but NO, not the US of A! No way José.;)

They actually flew and had mock dog fights with their own planes. In order to keep it all under wraps, the US gave the MiG 21 the Pseudonym F110 which is interesting because that is what they were thinking of calling the F4.All this was under the code name of Have Doughnut (you’ve just got to love ‘em) actually it was given the name from the gun sight Pipper** which being Americans and the Pipper being round they compared it to a doughnut,

And where else to test the MiGs maneuverability than Area 51 ! Yes the secret USAF base where they keep aliens and other secrets.

*“If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the result of a hundred battles. If you know yourself but not the enemy, for every victory gained you will also suffer a defeat. If you know neither the enemy nor yourself, you will succumb in every battle.”

Quote used by Sun Tzu (Chinese General born 545 BC paraphrasing a popular military proverb at the time)

** The predicted impact point (PIP) is the location that a ballistic projectile (e.g. bomb, missile, bullet) is expected to strike if fired. The PIP is almost always actively determined by a targeting computer, which then projects a PIP marker (a "pipper") onto a Head-Up Display (HUD).
 

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3Cie flew into Chad late 1990...intervention. I always thought we shot the then president Hissene Habre, and threw him down a dry well. It was only years later that I learnt he got away. A lot of the CIA boys at N’Djamena airport running around during that one.
N’Djamena, Chad (Nov-Dec 1990)
 

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Actually it is coming up to the anniversary 11 Dec '92 if I remember correctly. If you could find the original post on here and with your permission I could posted it on his website :whistle:
 

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The RAF’s Tornado was given the nickname Tonka because the pilots and maintenance crews considered it to be robust, practically unbreakable; “real tough toys for real tough boys”


For more on RAF pilots’ nicknames check out the Off Track Places vid ‘Yellow Peril’.

In 1969 4 countries decided to work on a project to create a Multi Role Combat Aircraft or MRCA. The countries were The UK, West Germany (the West And East were not united until 03 Oct ’90) Italy and the Netherlands

The Netherlands withdrew a year later saying that the project was too complicated and technical for their air force.

The Tornado entered service in 1979. It was originally designed as a Cold War bomber aircraft, intended to fly low and fast over the flat plains of eastern Europe. The mission envisaged during the Cold War was the delivery of conventional and nuclear ordnance on the invading forces of the Warsaw Pact countries of Eastern Europe. To which the pilots had to go back to the basics of learning to fly with compasses and maps and night vision googles. This was in case the ‘enemy’ where to interfere with the Tornados navigational equipment. Which was a very possible chance as one of the senior directors, was handing over secrets until he was caught on 20th September ’84. (see below)

The Tornado had its baptism of fire during the 1991 gulf war code named Operation Granby. Here they were in their element skimming across desert floor at 50ft above ground. Which is roughly 15m. To put that into perspective, imagine riding through a tunnel with 15m on either side of you in a ‘borrowed’ Rolls Royce for hours on end, at night with the occasional swerve and curve? Oh, and getting shot at along the way.

Operation Ellamy was the codename for the United Kingdom participation in the 2011 military intervention in Libya. What I found unusual was that each country had a different codename for the intervention- Alright Libya, which is only normal because they were the “bad guys” But the Canadians called it operation mobile, the French Opération Harmattan*(see Frances love of wind below) And of course the US just had to call it Operation Odyssey dawn. The coalition Operation was designated by NATO as Operation Unified Protector,

The Brits sent :

1 helicopter carrier

2 destroyers

3 frigates

2 mine hunters

2 submarines

10 Typhoon multirole fighters (which the updated version is one of the planes to replace the Tornado along with the F35 Lightning).

16 Tornado GR4 interdictor/strike aircraft from RAF Marham.

3 AWACS

1 signals intelligence plane

4 attack helicopters

It is clear that David Cameron was not there to f*ck around. Because they took out :

200 tanks, armoured vehicles, artillery pieces, & SAMs destroyed

1 corvette destroyed

1 corvette damaged

Compared to one Brit loss in Italy due to an accident – An airman who was part of a logistics convoy.

To mark their retirement, the planes flew over much of the country on three different routes for the farewell tour. Hundreds turned out each day to watch them above going to about 35 military stations and landmarks including RAF Lossiemouth in Scotland, RAF Valley on Anglesey in Wales, and the National Memorial Arboretum in Staffordshire.

However, from as early as 08:00 GMT police were issuing warnings about "drivers stopping unsafely on the A1122" in Norfolk in order to watch. Police have had to move on a number of drivers who have parked dangerously to watch a fly-past of RAF Tornados as part of the jets' farewell tour. Read one newspaper.

*GR Ground attack/Reconnaissance

* Harmattan a very dry, dusty easterly or northeasterly wind on the West African coast, occurring from December to February.
 
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The German spy Passing on the Tornados secrets to the KGB.

West Germany wanted the Tornado’s Headquarters and test flights to be based in Manching, Germany. The tornado, initially called Panavia Panther was to be produced in the following ratio, 42.5 % By west Germany, 42.5 % by the UK and the remaining 15 % by Italy. In order for Germany to obtain the project’s HQ, and to carry out the test flights they placed an initial order of 600 fighters jets. In the end they only bought just over half that amount !

Messerschmitt-Bölkow-Blohm (MBB) was where the West German’s were to Manufacture their part of the jet fighter. Their head of Planning Department was an East German born, Manfred Emil Rotsch. In May 1954 Rotsch was introduced as a "refugee" in the Federal Republic and he managed to build a career in the West German aerospace industry. It is thought that he had already been recruited before his move to the West by the KGB.

He was known under the code name of Emil, and would pass on The Tornados secrets by writing in secret invisible ink on the back of letters to his “Auntie Ulla” in East Germany. He would also use “dead mailboxes”, the type of stuff that you read about in John le Carré novels or see in Spy films. You know, where two people meet in a park on a bench looking at the ducks in the pond. Then Emil gets up and leaves his newspaper with the latest blue prints of the top-secret new fight jet. All cloak and dagger stuff.

In 1981, a high-ranking KGB officer made contact with the French secret service DST (the equivalent of the Brit MI5) and subsequently handed over several thousand internal KGB documents under the code name "Farewell". The evaluation clearly showed that the Soviets had to have a high-ranking source at the Messerschmitt factories; this was communicated to the MBB group in June 1983. After extensive research, Rotsch was identified as an agent in the summer of 1984 and, after being shadowed for several months, was arrested on September 20, 1984 - just ten days before his planned retirement. The East German government flatly and categorically denied any skullduggery; in fact, any involvement at all.

Instead of spending the rest of his days on the beach in Pattaya, Emil was sent down for 8.5 years. When he was unmasked and arrested in 1984, he was probably the longest-serving KGB agent in western Germany. For all East Germany’s denials of even knowing Manfred Emil Rotsch, a year after he was imprisoned, he was exchanged along with a couple of others for West German spies.
 
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Joseph Cosgrove

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The Mistral is a Cold North, North westerly wind which blows in the South of France.

Albeit this is not really Off Track Places type of stuff, I thought that I’d mention it.

The Mistral class warship is a class of five amphibious assault ships, also known as a helicopter carrier, of the French Navy. Referred to as "projection and command ships", a Mistral-class ship is capable of transporting and deploying 16 NH90 or Tiger helicopters, four landing barges, up to 70 vehicles including 13 Main battle tanks and 450 soldiers. The ships are equipped with a 69-bed hospital and most of all, are equipped with the very latest submarine detection technology.

The saga of the two Mistral helicopter carriers France built for Russia, but refused to hand over because of the conflict in eastern Ukraine, was a huge embarrassment for the French president, Francois Hollande.

On 15 November 2010, the Russian defense ministry announced that the tender was closed and the winner would be named by the end of the month. On 24 December 2010, after eight months of talks, Russian President Dmitry Medvedev approved the purchase of two Mistral class ships (and an option for two more) from France for €1.37 billion (€720 million for the 1st ship; €650 million for the second). The first ship was expected to be delivered in late 2014 or early 2015; Russia made an advance payment in early 2011 pursuant to the 25 January 2011 memorandum of understanding between the two parties. On 25 January 2011, the final agreement between Russia and France was signed. According to one Russian official the chief reason for the Mistral purchase, rather than using domestic producers, is that Russia required another 10 years to develop the technologies of the Mistral. The deal agreed that there would be a transfer of technology.

The Russian navy frigate Smolny arrives in Saint-Nazaire where 400 sailors were getting training on Mistral-class amphibious assault ships. How many of those sailors had sailed on a ship before is anyone’s guess. KGB – or today’s equivalent ? ) The French port of Saint-Nazaire woke to find the Russian naval ensign – a blue cross – flying offshore and a new row over France's sale of state-of-the-art warships to Moscow.

Russia had so far paid 785 million euros for the warships, one of which was to be delivered 2014 and the other later. However, Hollande suspended the deal under pressure from North Atlantic Treaty Organization allies, especially the Brits, as Russia looked increasingly involved in the eastern Ukraine fighting. Russia initially talked of a multi-billion-dollar indemnity prescribed by the contract. However, Putin (who was back in the top slot in the Russian government) said he wouldn’t demand “any indemnities or over-the-top punitive damages.” Instead, Russia asked France repay the advance and to compensate its outlay for new port infrastructure (to build its own Mistral class war ships) and the upkeep and training of the ships’ crews, all 400 of them. Not to mention all the tech info that they now had in their possession. *

The Kremlin, according to a statement, considers “the Mistral matter fully settled.”

*”Two computer hard drives, a motherboard, and a graphics card contained within two central processing units were stolen from the Mistral helicopter carrier ordered by Russia. Magistrate Fabienne Bonnet also clarified that the theft took place aboard the Sevastopol - the second of two Mistral-class vessels France is scheduled to deliver to Russia. According to the report, no signs of burglary had been discovered and no hypothesis was currently favored to explain the missing equipment.” I mean WTF
 
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