SAS and "Delta Force" soldiers KIA in Syria

[Peter Lyderik]

https://news.sky.com/story/british-...-syria-named-as-sergeant-matt-tonroe-11311534

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...syria-attack-jonathan-dunbar-texas/475929002/

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/59402...oe-dead-syria-fighting-isis-american-soldier/

https://www.stripes.com/news/middle...an-soldier-killed-in-syria-explosion-1.519855

 

[Joseph Cosgrove]

Thanks Peter, may they both rest in peace. And let's hope for a speedy recovery for those who were wounded.

 

[dusaboss]

Thanks for links Peter. Thread on that incident already exist https://cervens.net/forum/index.php?threads/easter-weekend.22321/

Maybe moderator could copy msgs there.

 

[Le petit caporal]

Kurds claiming Macron promised to send troops to help them against the Turks (they were received at the Élysées Palace last week). The French Presidency late issued a disclaimer. Turkey's président, going ape shit. Who knows?!

 

[dusaboss]

It's really big mess down in Syria. It's hard to tell how F with who.

For long time Us and Uk officially didn't admit to have military operations in Syria. Anybody have info on what they actually do there?
One link says that they were patrolling area with Kurdish forces, in other they were "conducting covert "kill missions" on high-value ISIS targets. " Both of which looks unlikely to me. It's clear that they were on secret mission so we probably won't get answer what that mission is.
We can guess. They probably train and coordinate Kurdish forces. Also enabling necessary sami-official military presence of home countries. Or who knows maybe something bit more more sinister. We would get real answers probably in 30 years.

Now US have high support for Kurds who are arch enemy of Turks who are again US ally. Turks actually attacking Kurdish areas in Syria and telling us that they fight ISIS. Kurds with Americans fight ISIS. Asad and Russians fight ISIS. Also Iran. Saudi Arabia says that they to fight ISIS (this one is good ). I mean how much of ISIS is there? 20 millions? Or maybe they don't tell us whole story?

 

[dusaboss]

I would say it's easy to give your army black flag and unofficially attack your enemy without risking bigger incident.

Same thing is done in 17th century with "pirate" ships.

 

[Le petit caporal]

A proxy war (pay others to fight your battles). Special forces present in Syria to eliminate their national recruits serving ISIS, so they can not return home to commit attacks? Why take the risk? Is there such a thing as a repented terrorist?
What about the woman who left their country to join a husband or boyfriend or those that got married to strangers. They had children. The subject can not be ignored.

 

[dusaboss]

Why do all special force guys wear keffiyeh. To blend in? I gues it's just popular accessory among that community after many Middle Eastern conflicts.

 

[Crawdad]

Why do all special force guys wear keffiyeh. To blend in? I gues it's just popular accessory among that community after many Middle Eastern conflicts.

It ain't just SF guys; plenty of regular troops wear them in theater, as well. It's not really to blend in, because the average corn-fed American dwarfs your typical Arab or Pashtun. You stand out either way. However, I did find that wearing both a scarf and a mustache, along with using local phrases and hand gestures, seemed to make the local yokels respect/like/trust me more.
Plus, there are other practical benefits to wearing one in that environment. The Arabs invented them for a reason, after all. Worn around the neck, they make a pretty handy dust mask or sweat rag; soak it in water and it cools you down a bit.

 

[dusaboss]

(...) It's not really to blend in, because the average corn-fed American dwarfs your typical Arab or Pashtun. You stand out either way. (...)

Man, I knew its not for blending in. It was a joke. No need for explaining that (I didn't know how to spell that right, but I knew essence)

(...) Plus, there are other practical benefits to wearing one in that environment; The Arabs invented them for a reason, after all. Worn around the neck, they make a pretty handy dust mask or sweat rag; soak it in water and it cools you down a bit.

I would agree with practical usage, but that job could do any other scarf wouldn't? You are probably right about facial hair because that's culture where in order to be respected grown man you have to have some, but I'm not that sure about that particular scarf (keffiyeh). I mean, would you respect every foreigner just because he wears cowboy hat ? I think that is more of accessories fad.
BTW. Was you deployed there? I forgot your story. You ARE (were) Marine?

 

[Crawdad]

(...) I would agree with practical usage, but that job could do any other scarf wouldn't? You are probably right about facial hair because that's culture where in order to be respected grown man you have to have some, but I'm not that sure about that particular scarf (keffiyeh). I mean, would you respect every foreigner just because he wears cowboy hat ? I think that is more of accessories fad.
BTW. Was you deployed there? I forgot your story. You ARE (were) Marine?

Sure, another cotton or linen scarf would have the same practical benefits, but then you run into the issue of not being allowed to wear it. Just like a civilian ballcap works as well as your issued patrol cap, but you're not allowed to wear it.
As to respecting foreigners who wear cowboy hats, consciously I wouldn't but subconsciously? Probably. Let's say two Serbs visit Bayou LaBatre, Alabama. One wears boots, jeans, a flannel shirt, and a ball cap. The other wears a jelek and a Sajkaca. Which one do you reckon gets along better? In xenophobic cultures, the foreigner who adopts local customs seems less foreign, and thus less frightening. Don't believe me? Dress in traditional Muslim garb and try to fly from New Orleans to Tallahassee. When the TSA is done anally molesting you, make the return flight in normal clothes. Then compare the two experiences.

Not a Marine. I'm ex-US Army (Combat Engineer), did three deployments to Iraq and one to Afghanistan.

EDIT: On second thought, a cowboy hat is considered pretty odd in coastal Alabama. It marks the wearer as being either: A) a Texan, B) possibly a Cajun, or C) a Damn Yankee who ain't one of us, but is attempting to appear so, for some nefarious purpose.

 

[dusaboss]

(...) As to respecting foreigners who wear cowboy hats; consciously, I wouldn't but subconsciously? Probably. Lets say two Serbs visit Bayou LaBatre, Alabama. One wears boots, jeans, a flannel shirt, and a ball cap. The other wears a jelek and a Sajkaca. Which one do you reckon gets along better? In xenophobic cultures, the foreigner who adopts local customs seems less foreign, and thus less frightening. (...)

You convinced me. You are right. This is good exemple how good conversation have to be done. Buy the way, just to get clear Jelek i Šajkača aren't folk outfit of all Serbia. In the northern part (where I'm living), most conservative people don't look kind on man wearing šajkača.

 

[Le petit caporal]

We had / have in our over seas paquetage (kit), a tissue called a chèche. Helps in limiting sand pile up on the scalp, sun burn protection too (after a week patrolling the desert, you would be surprised where that stuff (sand) ends up. Makes good for filtering café, if need be.

 

[Joseph Cosgrove]

Quite right Andy. In the 13 le chèche was part of the standard issue.



There was a kind of 'techinique' to put it on and for it to stay on. You obviously were not wizzing around the sand dunes like this unless the wind and sand had picked up. it would be completed by sand goggles or army issue sun glasses. Or if your Chef de section allowed, your own pair of raybans and long as you didn't look like a Pink Floyd.

A word about the paquetage outre-mer (overseas kit). When you get to your regiment you will have two sets of kit, the normal everyday kit and the desert kit, the latter is usually kept in a hangar in the stores. It consists of light weight combat uniforms. and lightweight shorts and short sleeve shirts for everyday work details including chemise gaos:


and of course the sand goggles and chèche

 

[Le petit caporal]

Chemise G.A.O. above, pockets on the back
Paco outre mer : light weight sleeping bag

 

[IRL_legion]

"It is now being thought that the British and American special forces troops killed in Syria on Thursday were targeted by Turkish FSA proxy fighters."

Full Story:
https://www.funker530.com/sas-ussof-turkish-fsa/

Also it reads that the SAS have pulled out as to not have conflict between two NATO allies, but US are staying and France considering sending troops.

 

[mulgarat]

The sad truth is that Turkish backed elements of the Free Syrian Army were probably responsible for the attack on coalition forces. The groups that are backed by Turkey in Afrin canton want to make a play for Manbij as well as Kobane cantons. The Turks want the YPG completely clear from their border which means from Rojava-Kurdistan.
Whether people agree or disagree, Turkey is becoming more firm in their demands that the US stop supporting the YPG led SDF. I think its one of those things that may lead to a clash between NATO allies. Expect "Operation Olive Branch" to extend past the Euphrates.
https://ahvalnews.com/free-syrian-army/fsa-may-be-behind-manbij-bomb-attack-against-coalition-forces

 

[dusaboss]

Now US have high support for Kurds who are arch enemy of Turks who are again US ally. Turks actually attacking Kurdish areas in Syria and telling us that they fight ISIS. Kurds with Americans fight ISIS.

I predicted something like that. As they saying, ISIS is cleaned from that area so that was very possible scenario for me.

This is very interesting part from taxt:
"Considering Turkey is directly responsible for the swarms of military-aged male “refugees” flooding French streets as well as the resurgence of ISIS in Syria… France may not be concerned with Turkey’s current outrage. "

Is Turkey responsible for Migrant crisis? I think not. Only their responsibility is because they don't give a F about stopping migrants on their territory. And why should they. They don't caused migrant crisis (maybe some little party), they don't call migrants with "open borders- mama Merkel" policy and they don't financed trip of migrants (someone do).

I mean if French officially put that as reason for sending troops... Really do anyone still buying that shit?
So government let 100 of thousands migrants without any checking and then use that as excuse to send troops by saying "it wasn't me" "is Turkey"!

 

[Le petit caporal]

Russia to supply Turkey with sol / air missiles
Turkey will not be admited into the union european, sure
Turkey leaves NATO, might
Turkey signs military alliance with Russia. ..Iran, Syria and Hezbollah, Lebanon and Gaza, possible
France, Germany, UK and USA. ..!
China will not tolerate tax war on steel imports
China and Russia will use veto at the security council UN

 

[mulgarat]

Russia to supply Turkey with sol / air missiles
Turkey will not be admited into the union european, sure
Turkey leaves NATO, might
Turkey signs military alliance with Russia. ..Iran, Syria and Hezbollah, Lebanon and Gaza, possible
France, Germany, UK and USA. ..!
China will not tolerate tax war on steel imports
China and Russia will use veto at the security council UN

Yep, does'nt take a rocket scientist to figure out we are either locked in a Monty Python parody universe or headed for the Third World War.