The grim "reality" of the French Foreign Legion.

Rapace

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#21
De Gaulle decided to put an end to the war in Algeria when he realised that no political solution could be achieved, in spite of a clear victory, on the field, after the large "search and destroy" operations realised under Gen Challe command in 1959. He tried to find a so-called "troisième voie" (literally third way), in between plain independence and the status quo, that is granting some form of autonomy to Algeria and improving the lot of the Muslims, but keeping it in the sphere of French influence, but that never worked for reasons that would be too long to detail here.
At some point, he considered Algeria had become more a liability than an asset and the price to pay to maintain it as a French territory was too high, from an economic and political (both internally and internationally) standpoint. He had other objectives for France and he considered that war in Algeria was getting in his way.
Although the situations are different, the reasons why France eventually left Algeria are quite similar to those that led the US to leave Vietnam : no viable political solution in sight and too high a price to pay. End of story.
 
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#22
Negasintiste or a brain washed child, since kindergarten or primary, if you prefer. One doesn't exclude the other.
FLN = marxiste (because it suited them and to obtain their independence. Nationalist, of course and it goes without saying
De Gaulle, got his revenge, by withdrawing from NATO and producing his own nuclear bomb, bonjour l'orgueil. Et nul ne peut le contester. Risk of censure, à l'époque and up until the early 80's, with the arrival of Kermit the frog (Mitterrand).
 

dusaboss

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#23
War exhaustion lost the War in Algeria, as it did for every other Colonial War post WWII. The Americans helped out because they mostly hated Colonial Powers, being a former Colony themselves.

During the Suez Crisis of 1956, the Americans basically told the Brits and French to "get out or else", it was a little nudge to say, you aren't the big boys at the dinner table anymore, so best take those colonial aspirations and put them away.
Don't you see illogicality here? "Americans helped out because they mostly hated Colonial Powers, being a former Colony themselves." Ohh 😢... did they? Yes, I'm sure that was theirs (and USSR'S) main reason for getting involved. Acquiring influence over such a important point on Earth as Suez Canal is have nothing to do with their involvement. We all know that politics on that level is driven only by people's heart, dignity, honor and other human virtues. :) Please man ... give me a break.

Things changed dramatically within big world players game after WW2. In that war there was only three winners, if we look from the point of view of states (countries). We had : USA , USSR and surprisingly Switzerland. All others are losers!

Occupied countries were never really liberated, they just replaced invaders. Of course, new invaders are much better (especially on territories occupied by US), but still, after WW2 we got a new form of colonialism. One by US embodied in NATO and other by USSR in Warsaw Pact.

In the old days (Victorian era and earlier) it was enough to take victory in war against some people, insure military presence and you had a colony. In the XXth century things started to change. People got massively better educated, so the old way of ruling over other countries was no longer possible so we got new forms I mentioned. I think that in last 15 years with a rise of internet they are getting outdated.
 
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#24
Half of the equipment French troops had was yankee. Half of the French national budget was yankee.

Yo from Texas ?
Yo bet your hairy ass i am
And yo smoke ?
Sure i smoke, Malboro, why ?
So, you smoke Malboro and yo are from Texas, right ?
Yup, siree, i am
Then, you're a cow boy, right ?
Me paw and me maw were, why ?
Yo from Texas, you smoke Marloro and yo a cow boy, and yo ride horses, right?
That's for sure, Siree, why?
Yo from Texas, yo smokes Marlboro, yo a cow boy who herds cows and yo rides horses ?
Yo, it's a way of life, why ?
Yo herd cattle, ride horses and yo smokes Malboro and yo from Texas, why?
For T bone steaks, yo, why?
Was wondering
Wondering what, Siree?
What yo do with the milk?
Yo, what is milk?
What cows produce, yo
Oh really?
Yup, yo produce milk and yo makes fromage, yo
Fromage, what is fromage, yo?
Fromage is cheese, yo
I hear yo all, smart move, yo
See, yo no Texan any more
How come bro, yo?
Yo makes fromage and fromage is French. Yo, français dude!
 
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#25
(...) In the old days (Victorian era and earlier) it was enough to take victory in war against some people, insure military presence and you had a colony. In the XXth century things started to change. People got massively better educated, so the old way of ruling over other countries was no longer possible so we got new forms I mentioned. I think that in last 15 years with a rise of internet they are getting outdated.
Tell that to the people of Gaza.
 

dusaboss

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#26
(...) Although the situations are different, the reasons why France eventually left Algeria are quite similar to those that led the US to leave Vietnam : no viable political solution in sight and too high a price to pay. End of story.
Yes, there is similarity that in both cases cost of war was too much to be paid, so they decided that retreat home was the best option, but not much more then that. As I understood Americans are losing war and French didn't. French were in Algeria for more than 130 years. They had already to some degree established their culture, language and influence there. Americans had just arrived. Yes, the Algeria war was in some sense similar to Indochina wars because of East vs West support for conflicted parties, still there is a big difference in amount of Russian help and involvement between mentioned wars.
Interesting thing. Algerians hate their French occupants and oppressors so much that actually third of them decided to move to France, second third would also move but can't get visa. Last third are too young or too old to take the trip. :)

Tell that to the people of Gaza.
I don't see connections Petit Caporal, but fine. Just don't know to say that to whom in Gaza? To Jews or Muslims? Situation there is pretty complicated.
 
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dusaboss

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#28
Colonial powers, oppression and all that jazz
Yap I get it what you want to say, in the meantime. ;)

I mean, no way that any of those two sides would accept rule of other. Simply, too brainwashed by religion. States governed by theocracy and by religions which are archenemy one to another. They would probably choose death over submission to other one. (for example I'm sure that Palestinians wouldn't have any trouble if colonized by Iran)

If any peaceful solution is possible in that part of world you were need to significantly reduce amount of religion in equation.
 

canuckroyal

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#29
Don't you see illogicality here? "Americans helped out because they mostly hated Colonial Powers, being a former Colony themselves." Ohh 😢... did they? Yes, I'm sure that was theirs (and USSR'S) main reason for getting involved. Acquiring influence over such a important point on Earth as Suez Canal is have nothing to do with their involvement. We all know that politics on that level is driven only by people's heart, dignity, honor and other human virtues. :) Please man ... give me a break.
Yes I do see the illogicality of it. As I said, the Americans have spent the entire Post-WWII era enforcing "their views" as they laid out very clearly to Churchill in the Atlantic Charter, who begrudgingly had to support them because the cost of not doing so was that the United Kingdom might have ended up speaking German. Their views don't necessarily conform to that of others.

Also, one of the principle American viewpoints is 'unrestricted freedom of the sea' so yes, they will sail their boats anywhere and any place they please. The American viewpoint is the Suez Canal should be open, and free for all to use, just like the Panama Canal is. The Americans essentially took the Monroe Doctrine of the 1800's and applied it on a Global Scale post WWII. It's the reason the Americans will sail a Carrier Task Group right through the South China Sea, the Dardanelles, Persian Gulf, Strait of Malacca, etc. Because they can and it is what they believe in.

We are having a dispute with them right now in Canada over this very same issue in the Arctic, where we are trying to say that our Arctic Waters are inland waterways, they aren't buying what we are selling and have sailed a few ships through there for no other reason than to give us the middle finger and 'just because we can'.

Another reason the Americans were so vehemently opposed to the French and Brits intervening in the Suez was because at the very same time, the Soviets were invading Hungary. The Americans couldn't denounce the Soviets and then let the French and Brits do the exact same thing in the Suez.
 
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#30
Had we been allowed to finish the job at Suez, it is my considered opinion that many of the subsequent problems in that area would not have occurred.

The USA wanted to diminish our power and old colonialism. They also screwed us over 'lend lease' for all the military hardware and material obtained from them during WW2. This debt was only redeemed under Margaret Thatcher's premiership.

The UK was very divided as to the Suez adventure. I joined the RMs' 4 months before Operation Musketeer. This failed enterprise was the catalyst for the 'End of Empire'.
 

jonny

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#31
But, but, Kennedy bedded Marilyn Monroe, That’s certainly count for something, non?

275E9ACA-C10F-4231-9622-B72D4C163B0F.jpeg
 

dusaboss

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#33
We are drifting more and more away from the original topic...
Do you need a whip? :)
Yep... There is a grim reality of FFL. Do you want me to start it about? Nobody would cares anyway because I'm not a part of FFL.
 

Joseph Cosgrove

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#34
Do you need a whip? :)
Yep... There is a grim reality of FFL. Do you want me to start it about? Nobody would cares anyway because I'm not a part of FFL.
The original topic was about an ex-legionnaire who, even though h'es no longer in the Legion, would not give his name. Why ? I don't know, it's not as though he's going to be given 40 days or being sent to 3e REI as a punishment:eek:. The person in question mentioned a lot of bad things about the Legion, including officers beating up legionnaires in front of their grandparents and about to beat up the old boy himself (granddad) !
No proof was provided and no names were given. I mean if I saw this :rolleyes: and I had left the Legion I would not only name the officer, but I would also write to the Général commandant la Légion étrangère (COMLE). We've had our share on the forum too. I remember one guy saying that at Camerone if you hugged your parents during the kermesse the corporals would beat you up o_O. In a nutshell the grim reality is that there's a lot of people out there who cannot hack it or just want to seem interesting for once in their life, so they make things up :coffee:.
 

mm66

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#35
I wish I woulda stayed. I don’t know how long I’ll last out. I have no purpose and not sure I can hack it. I mean what’s the difference anyway??? Vive la Légion.

Mm66 is another story, ha!

It’s still a life saving organization, that's for sure
 

Papillon

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#36
The original topic was about an ex-legionnaire who, even though h'es no longer in the Legion, would not give his name. Why ? I don't know, it's not as though he's going to be given 40 days or being sent to 3e REI as a punishment:eek:. The person in question mentioned a lot of bad things about the Legion, including officers beating up legionnaires in front of their grandparents and about to beat up the old boy himself (granddad) !
No proof was provided and no names were given. I mean if I saw this :rolleyes: and I had left the Legion I would not only name the officer, but I would also write to the Général commandant la Légion étrangère (COMLE). We've had our share on the forum too. I remember one guy saying that at Camerone if you hugged your parents during the kermesse the corporals would beat you up o_O. In a nutshell the grim reality is that there's a lot of people out there who cannot hack it or just want to seem interesting for once in their life, so they make things up :coffee:.
I’m with you all the way. I could write a sh*t load of stuff on times when I was treated not very well and you know what I joined a tough old mob, I fu-ked up I did my jail and punishment and got on. I never moaned about it as hey it was me that f*cked up, and no one else!
Once again sorry your experience in the Legion was not so good but take a look in the mirror buddy you might see the reasons why!
 

dusaboss

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#37
That story from the start of the thread is from Reddit site (or some similar). I read that about years ago.
 

Joseph Cosgrove

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#38
Papillon, you quoted me and then went on to say: “Once again sorry your experience in the legion was not so good but take a look in the mirror buddy you might see the reasons why!”
Don't worry, I know you weren't talking about me. It wasn't all roses, and we all have a tendency to remember the better times -Is that where the saying “absence makes the heart grow fonder” comes from? But I met a lot more of different people than I would have met in any establishment elsewhere and have guarded a lot of (good) souvenirs.
 

Papillon

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#39
Papillon, you quoted me and then went on to say: “Once again sorry your experience in the legion was not so good but take a look in the mirror buddy you might see the reasons why!”
Don't worry, I know you weren't talking about me. It wasn't all roses, and we all have a tendency to remember the better times -Is that where the saying “absence makes the heart grow fonder” comes from? But I met a lot more of different people than I would have met in any establishment elsewhere and have guarded a lot of (good) souvenirs.
No you’re right Joseph the comment was not directed at yourself it was directed at the negative experience a member had!
 

dusaboss

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#40
The guy who wrote that crap is full of shit, but I'm sure there are enough bad things going on in FFL without fabrication.

I would always remember the story of a 2e REP legionnaire who lost a testicle when a retarded NCO fired a blank round with muzzle directly at the guy's groin.

To matter be worst FFL tried to cover up whole event. I don't know if they tried to deal with the situation their own way or if the idiot almost managed to get away with it without any punishment. Anyway 30 days “en taule” doesn't look like appropriate punishment for a fried ball. That guy should be sent to court-martial immediately.

Poor guy (one ball) eventually had to search for justice in civil court and won the case. FFL probably paid him nice sum of money and the NCO was eventually kicked out.

I mean I know that the Legion likes to deal with this sort of incident by themselves, but looks that they didn't deal with this case it all. NCO until trial didn't even lost his rank. :( Case is especially hard to grasp for me because corporal did that to a legionnaire who have to unquestionable follow his orders and obey.

I would like to know more about this even before make full conclusion but FFL doesn't look good in this story. If I'm enlisting I'm doing with notion that I can lose my ball or life in war but no because some retarded corporal want to have a fun.
 

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