What is the path that someone must take to become a FFL sniper?

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#61
We had a guy at my local shooting range when I still did some sports shooting, he was the ultimate range warrior, always buying the latest and greatest kit and tacticool gear.
Let me guess, tactical pants, tactical shades, tactical baseball cap, always trying to put a tactical face when using his cap. I have met a lot of those..... Usually they are quite rich....
I went hunting with one of those guy, instead of bringing a normal gun for hunting, he took a Desert Tech SRS-A1(10.000 US gun in Argentina), he bragged about that gun for 6 hours (the trip from B.A to La Pampa). When we got there, he laughed at the guide, because he was a poor dude that only had a single shot 30-06.
He did annoy everyone with different types of complains "Where is the toilet?" "Why we have to walk so much to find a deer" "this gun is too heavy" (He then understood that taking a 6 kg gun to a hunting trip is not a good idea), also he did step on every single branch.
He didn't hunt a single thing... the guide did hunt a nice deer and very tasty wild board.

Sometimes being able to buy the gear, doesn't make you hot shit.
 

SnafuSmite

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#62
This guy must've had a catalogue from 5.11 and TruSpec with all his crap, and always wore camo either a jacket or pants. Funny thing was he was an accountant and had never spent a day in the military or police. Beats me as to why you'd wear camo on the range but hey takes all sorts, at least he kept the local gun shop in business.

Dont get me started when he bought a 338 Lapua Accuracy International as a hunting rifle.....guy cant even hit an elephant in the ass with a bazooka at 10 paces, now wants a sub moa rifle for hunting. At least he let me fire off some rounds....
 
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maim

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#63
I think Hathcocks skills lay in many areas , obviously an excellent shot and fully understood where a bullet was going but his main attribute as a sniper was having the balls to go into areas where few dared and he obviously had excellent field skills.
I`m working towards becoming a firearms / ballistics expert with a view becoming an expert witness in court cases , I`m also fully aware this does not make me a sniper.
At last Surfguy hit it on the head. You can be a great shot, maybe represent you country in the oympics or other shooting challenge.
To be a sniper you have to know how to get where you are going. You have to kill the person or persons. You have to then get out without being captured. And then give a full report, not only of the kill, but the security, the force of men, the type of weapons etc.[/QUOTE]
Mate, get up to speed on bullet "wobble" hence a frontal impact may appear like an exit wound, why supersonic rounds are boat tailed, waste of time, just makes them unstable on impact, blah, flick me a mail with anything you think I might be able to help with. Still got a load of contacts from CAD Kineton.
 
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#64
After WW2 the only unit in the British Armed Forces to maintain a sniper school were the RM. This was copied by the Parachute Regiment a few years later. The current sniper course is 13 to 17 weeks and indeed the RMs' train the SAS in this skill. It is an incredibly tough course and regarded as the best in NATO.

Snipers have to be experts is camouflage, field craft, movement across ground assessing the topography, be experts in map reading and a first class shot to expert. Patience and the ability to remain in one position for several hours to days, without allowing their presence to be known. They must be familiar with enemy vehicle markings, rank and insignias of opposing forces and they must be able to send intelligence information back to their parent formation. They are information gatherers of the highest order. Finally they must be capable like a FOO to order air strikes. Shooting is only part of their multitude of skills and the sniper section (as I know) walks alone and they normally have a quiet and unassuming mind set. They are men apart and sometimes, even, disliked by their own colleagues who fail to understand their psyche.
 
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#65
500m isnt very far for a "sniper " rifle , more like close to the limits of an assault rifle, , I shoot Fig11 steel plates out to 1760 yards (1 mile) and its not easy , quality kit is a small part of it , you really have to fully understand what you is going on or you waste a lot of ammo.

500 yard prone ie easy to make center mass hit under most circumstances. Any western qualification requires it. Real world cool headed guys it's a chip shot under most circumstances.
 
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#66
500 yard prone ie easy to make center mass hit under most circumstances. Any western qualification requires it. Real world cool headed guys it's a chip shot under most circumstances.
Now getting stalking and getting in position is another matter.
 

maim

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#67
OK sprout, how about this, dig a shell scrape in your neighbourhood ghetto, camouflage your position, eat cold non smelly food, piss and shit in plastic bags and on day seven shoot a rabbit, or a dog or whatever. exfiltrate under cover of darkness. That's how you could prepare.
But,
the Legion will decide if YOU are suitable,
You might end up being a cook, if so that's what they think, bust your ass in basic and you MAY be given a choice of Regiment, bust your ass there and you MAY be given a choice of jobs,
I was lucky.
Stay safe,
Aye,
M.
 
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#68
OK sprout, how about this, dig a shell scrape in your neighbourhood ghetto, camouflage your position, eat cold non smelly food, piss and shit in plastic bags and on day seven shoot a rabbit, or a dog or whatever. exfiltrate under cover of darkness. That's how you could prepare.
But,
the Legion will decide if YOU are suitable,
You might end up being a cook, if so that's what they think, bust your ass in basic and you MAY be given a choice of Regiment, bust your ass there and you MAY be given a choice of jobs,
I was lucky.
Stay safe,
Aye,
M.

I guess that was my point MG. Been through two branches (US) courses and practiced the trade a few times. The shot, to a certain point, is not the issue. The stalk and position as well as timing make the real difference. And yes the HK417 can extend range substantially in the right hands. Beyond 500.
Cheers Gil
(Sprout going 70 Martin :)
 
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dusaboss

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#69
I tried to stay away from this subject as long as I could because I don't know much about it.

What I do know is that in any normal army if you are sniper and you are close to get captured... advice is to get rid of your weapon.

Why is that? Is it because snipers are really respected branch of army? I don't know. I'm just asking questions?
 
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#71
I think Hathcocks skills lay in many areas , obviously an excellent shot and fully understood where a bullet was going but his main attribute as a sniper was having the balls to go into areas where few dared and he obviously had excellent field skills.
I`m working towards becoming a firearms / ballistics expert with a view becoming an expert witness in court cases , I`m also fully aware this does not make me a sniper.
At last Surfguy hit it on the head. You can be a great shot, maybe represent you country in the oympics or other shooting challenge.
To be a sniper you have to know how to get where you are going. You have to kill the person or persons. You have to then get out without being captured. And then give a full report, not only of the kill, but the security, the force of men, the type of weapons etc.[/QUOTE]


Many former scout snipers from 4/5 plus decades ago met and knew Carlos Hathcock.His skill was not only a natural ability to stalk and land/nav but he was an instinctive natural long gun shooter. Mr. GM here, a former 13DBLE and more ancien knows a few that knew him well.

Spout lol out
 
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#72
PFC Charles Malwinney should never be forgotten as well. While he wasn't career, his work was more than impressive. Myself and another member here had dinner with him 9 or so years ago. He did just as an impressive job as CH.
 
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#73
PFC Charles Malwinney should never be forgotten as well. While he wasn't career, his work was more than impressive. Myself and another member here had dinner with him 9 or so years ago. He did just as an impressive job as CH.
Of course know one know's of one of the three most prolific sniper's of the RVN due to his rank and EASing without fanfair. Of course he was a "sprout" too.
 
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#74
Canadian snipers are excellent. They hold 3 of the top five places for distance kills. The longest confirmed kill, taking in the curvature of the earths surface was 2.475 metres or 1.5 miles.

For actual kills in Afghanistan a current serving RM sniper had 173 confirmed kills. One at extreme distance, but as yet I can't confirm how far. His kills involved all skills required for this specialisation. Stalking and withdrawals from exposed positions formed a major factor in his successes. He is well renowned for his field craft.

This individual RM success is rather more than the greatly acclaimed USN Seal Chris Kyle, who had a film made about him.

Our Royal Marine shuns all publicity and long may that remain the case.
 
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#75
This individual RM success is rather more than the greatly acclaimed USN Seal Chris Kyle, who had a film made about him.

Our Royal Marine shuns all publicity and long may that remain the case.
Well it is a big business, people like the late Chris Kyle not only becomes a celebrity but they can sell "tactical" courses which are quite expensive, books, endorse "Tactical Stuff" like
"I came alive from the sandbox because i had my pair of Extreme TACTICAL scissors! buy yours NOW, show to your range buddy that you are a tactical dude!!!!"
And the TACTICAL SCISSORS is not a Joke... that´s how some people sells the trauma scissors, of course in TACTICAL colors like TAN, BLACK, OD.

Down the road is a lot of money they can get. Two years ago some "tactical dudes" from Argentina hired "Instructor Zero"(dude with a tactical beard) for a "tactical" course.... He got a lot of money and he also got the booze for free.
 

dusaboss

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#76
Well it is a big business, people like the late Chris Kyle not only becomes a celebrity but they can sell "tactical" courses which are quite expensive, books, endorse "Tactical Stuff" like
"I came alive from the sandbox because i had my pair of Extreme TACTICAL scissors! buy yours NOW, show to your range buddy that you are a tactical dude!!!!"
And the TACTICAL SCISSORS is not a Joke... that´s how some people sells the trauma scissors, of course in TACTICAL colors like TAN, BLACK, OD.

Down the road is a lot of money they can get. Two years ago some "tactical dudes" from Argentina hired "Instructor Zero"(dude with a tactical beard) for a "tactical" course.... He got a lot of money and he also got the booze for free.
Money involved makes me think how much truth have in these war stories. Also army needs heroes in order to boost morale. That was case all through the history.

Speaking of Chris Kyle...guy is a liar. You don't lie about your medals! Which makes me think what else did he lied about? Maybe confirmed kills? How sniper kill getting confirmation?

http://foreignpolicy.com/2016/05/25/report-american-sniper-chris-kyle-lied-about-his-medal-count/
 

voltigeur

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#77
Movies and books are meant to generate money, therefore most of them are embellished or contain outright lies.
If there was no embellishment, not many books would be sold or movies be watched.
 
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#78
Money involved makes me think how much truth have in these war stories. Also army needs heroes in order to boost morale. That was case all through the history.

Speaking of Chris Kyle...guy is a liar. You don't lie about your medals! Which makes me think what else did he lied about? Maybe confirmed kills? How sniper kill getting confirmation?

http://foreignpolicy.com/2016/05/25/report-american-sniper-chris-kyle-lied-about-his-medal-count/
Dusboss, I agree with your sentiment but also know at least a dozen guys he supported. The have zero complaints about the man. Stress, "fame" and allot of other factors all play into the public persona of these guys. The quieter the better history has shown to be a far better approach IMO.

Mr. Charles MalWeeny is proof of that despite him being sponsored (maybe formerly) by a well known knife manufacturer.

But the truth will out and Kyle had plenty of flaws that most would not have overlooked under different circumstances.

Sprout out !
 

dusaboss

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#79
Dusboss, I agree with your sentiment but also know at least a dozen guys he supported. The have zero complaints about the man. Stress, "fame" and allot of other factors all play into the public persona of these guys. The quieter the better history has shown to be a far better approach IMO.
I don't know, maybe he was a great guy. He was a extraordinary man for sure. Highly decorated navy seal, he have to have some virtues for sure. But I just can't get over he's lying about medals. Some of which are for a valor! You don't lie about your medals, period! I can understand if he pumped up his "confirmed kills", but not a medals.

I could lie here to guys who I never saw in my live that I earned my kepi. F-it, I couldn't lie that I even tried to join if I didn't.
I'm simply not that kind of person. End believe me I can lie and I can lie fairly good, but not about this thing which will become (already is) such important thing in my life. So lying on that level as Chris Kyle did ... I don't know how he can (could) wash his name.

He was killed by guy with PTSD and schizophrenia. So who knows maybe he also suffer for some mental illness we don't know about. I'm sure that US navy wouldn't like that announce that their poster boy have PTSD or some shit.
He was honorably discharged at age 35 after only 10 y of service... Hmmm?

Something doesn't work with all his story, not only with things he was proven to lie about.
 
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#80
I knew of a sniper (peleton commando, 2 escadron, 1 REC. ..during Op Manta Chad 82? )
Was a buddy of the father of Guido Lovarini)
English
He never talked about his exploits
He was decorated for his exploits
I knew he was english because he talked to me. ...me kens them frum the first voyelle pronounced
Weird dude, imo (from a young legionnaire with 5 or 6 months service. .. (oct/nov 83)

Guido, ask your dad
 

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